Gun Crime In America

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Should Gun Shops Be Legal In America?

Yes
6
46%
No
4
31%
Only with tighter restrictions, vetting of buyers and penalites for non-conforming shopkeepers.
3
23%
 
Total votes: 13

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Boss Man
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Gun Crime In America

Post by Boss Man »

In America, unlike Britain, it's legal to run gun shops, but in mind this promotes higher incidences of gun deaths and increases gun related crimes I.E. robbery and wounding with intent as examples. I'm not including racketeering in the current legal scenario.

I am wondering how many more crimes and deaths could be avoided, if America made gun shops illegal.

Yes it might increase Gun racketeering and yes it might decrease taxable revenues to the government, but shouldn't America put its peoples welfare ahead of it incomes?
musculargirl
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by musculargirl »

Its a nice thought Boss, but people love their guns in america. The national Rifle association is a pretty strong group that lobbies quite a bit in congress. Not to mention its one our amendments the right to bear arms. So that probably won't be repealed anytime soon.
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Boss Man
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by Boss Man »

Gun clubs would be fine with strict regulations and monitoring. They have them here and people with licences can go hunting things like Game Birds, though I completely disagree with that.
musculargirl
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by musculargirl »

I don't know enough about gun crime or guns for that matter so I can't really say. I don't like guns and it would probably lower crime like you say but i don't think something like that would go over well here unfortunately. Just two cents though. Interesting to hear what others have to say.
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Boss Man
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by Boss Man »

I appreciate your throughts :).
musculargirl
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by musculargirl »

anytime boss!
PandorasVise
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by PandorasVise »

generally speaking, people who legally own guns, use them for legal purposes. People who have guns illegally, use them for illegal things. Sometimes people who got a gun snap and go on some rampge, not the gun's fault. If they didn't have a gun, they could use poison http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspirin ... 27258.html or use knives or any number of things.
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Boss Man
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by Boss Man »

PandorasVise wrote:Sometimes people who got a gun snap and go on some rampge, not the gun's fault.
Well true, the poor gun can't be blamed. I mean the metal didn't want to be used to make a handgun, it wanted to become an office based waste receptacle, or a traffic light, but the metals fate was to be transformed into an ugly, dangerous metallic lump, with nasty potential :wink:.

Though quite a few people can easily buy guns legally in America with the intention of killing, stealing or maming people. I don't doubt it can be done. Not rampaging, just people with criminal intent easily buying something to use as it's not a gun that comes from stolen or trafficked means.

That could be a scenario in quiote a few cases. I bet sometimes such shops could get robbed as well for trafficking or gang related crime. Some shops could even be fronts for selling illegally obtained weapons. I don't doubt ther possibility of that.
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fitoverforty
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by fitoverforty »

Boss Man wrote:I am wondering how many more crimes and deaths could be avoided, if America made gun shops illegal.
It's not only specialized gun shops where you can buy firearms. I can go less than 1/2 mile from house to the local "Sports & Outdoors store" that sells everything from fitness equipment, camping equipment, children's school clothes, shoes, watches, boats, kayaks, and yes, all types of firearms from handguns to shotguns, bullets, etc. It's a very hot topic in neck of the woods. Most of husbands co-workers and some of mine have a concealed handgun license. For years, it was normal to see a pickup truck going down the road with a shotgun in the "gun rack" in plain view. It was almost a bragging right.
As Patty said, guns dont kill people, people kill people. Everyone should have a way to protect themselves in their own home against home invasion, but there needs to be limits, I agree.
It is a hard call, because people are unpredictable - you want to believe everyone is generally nice and civil, then you go to work and some looney who just got fired breaks out a gun and starts mowing people down. If only one other person there had on their person a legal concealed weapon, maybe they could have stopped this person. What are your thoughts?
Fygle
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by Fygle »

Come on, you have to agree there'd be a lot less dead people without guns... I'll agree you've got a vicious cycle going over there, where guns in the wrong hands may force joe blow to go buy one as well to feel safe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIpLd0WQKCY
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Boss Man
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by Boss Man »

fitoverforty wrote:then you go to work and some looney who just got fired breaks out a gun and starts mowing people down. If only one other person there had on their person a legal concealed weapon, maybe they could have stopped this person.
Potentially yes, but then that could encourage the bad kind of vigilantism, where people take the law into thier own hands.

In Britain they call htings reasonale force. You get someone robbing your house, then restraining them is fine, perhaps a small blow to the back of one leg to disable yes, but a farmer called Tony Martin shot two robbers with a Shotgun and wounded one killing the other.

He got serious prison time.

Some agreed with it, but others didn't on the basis that theft doesn't warrent death and I agree.

Also you are permitted to defend yourself in a restrained manner, with something like a golf club, cricket bat, baseball bat, copper pipe or any other makeshift weapon, but you cannot have it under the bed or in the wardrobe of the room you sleep as examples, because using it against intruders is then deemed premeditated, instead of just going to another room, to get something as a spur of the mokment or panic type response to intruders.

You could possibly get done then for things like assault, possibly wounding with intent maybe even ABH, just for striking someone with a makeshift weapon kept in the same room that you sleep in.

Lorry drivers in America carrying Shotguns, I've heard of. In general any possible hijacks of trucks here, most of the time involves tobacco or alcohol in understanding and involes mroe often than not, the Baseball bat and ski mask / balaclava type approach, rather than guns.

Yes we have gun crime, but often it's gang related. Though sometimes to rob shops or banks as well and occasionally to settle some grudge, usually from one criminal to another.

It's unfortunate when people go on gun sprees, or "go postal" as they say, but what if the person concealing a handgun is mistaken as someobody nefarious? Then it affects their social standing. Why does that person need a gun to go out with? Defending their property mayhap, but out on the street, where a misfired or ricocheted shot could kill or injure innocents?

That's one way to look at that.

Plus it would look like the person might intend to use the weapon purposefully, or in a premeditated way, not as a spur of the moment thing. After all you hear of nice family men coming home one day and killing their families. Coud you trust someone compeltely, or feel totally comfortable around them, if you knew they were walking round with a gun concelaed in a sock, back pocket, handbag etc etc. It might make you uneasy if you knew them, but worse if they were new to the area.

Things like Columbine are pretty rare in observation. In Britain we had something similar years ago with Dunblane. A nutter rampaging around a primary school in Scotland, with some sort of Samurai sword or similar blade. The school was full of children in the 4-5 age range up to the 10-11 age range. I think he caused serious injuries and one schoolteacher suffered serious arm wounds trying to defuse the situation. She got a bravery award.

There have been other things recently in that vein. Derek Bird, killed several locals in Cumbria and his own brother. The brother was something to do with owing money. The other 10 or 11 victims, I forget the exact amount are unknown MO casualties. Nobody still knows since why them.

Same thing recently with Raoul Moat. Moat killed his ex girlfriends lower and injured her, when he got out of prison. Jealousy for what he saw as a supposed betrayal. He injured a police officer, then after about 7-8 days on the run, was killed by armed police. At one point through around day 4 or 5, he threatened to start going for the public.

However if we allowed the public easy access guns, some might just decide to be the next Derek Bird or kill in the name of vigilantism or excessive defence tactics, like in Tony Martin's case.

Guns are dangerous in the wrong hands and the fact some people could go postal or easily buy them to commit crimes or even kill people is not right, but giving everyone else easy access to them, to own and keep, is counterproductive to me, as you could get fire with fire scenarios, scaremongering or uncertainty about what a stranger or a person you know might do with one, when they have it, or people killing or wounding petty criminals, who deserve jail not a bullet, just because they attempted to steal from you.

I admit though, that is bad that you could go into a shop buy a tennis racket and at the same time buy a Handgun, that is some freaky stuff right there.
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fitoverforty
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by fitoverforty »

Boss Man wrote:Also you are permitted to defend yourself in a restrained manner, with something like a golf club, cricket bat, baseball bat, copper pipe or any other makeshift weapon, but you cannot have it under the bed or in the wardrobe of the room you sleep as examples, because using it against intruders is then deemed premeditated, instead of just going to another room, to get something as a spur of the mokment or panic type response to intruders.
You could possibly get done then for things like assault, possibly wounding with intent maybe even ABH, just for striking someone with a makeshift weapon kept in the same room that you sleep in.
Are you kidding me? You can't have a stick or anything to defend yourself in your own bedroom? What if the intruder is IN the room and you wake up to him at the foot of your bed? And he is threatening you with a weapon or some sort of restraining device? I keep a big heavy stick right beside the headboard of bed, and if any intruder makes it into room, I will do best to make sure they don't leave the room - possibly to make it to son's room, or if God forbid they are in son's room, I will not hesitate to do best to knock them out, break their bones, or whatever it takes to protect family. I'm not gonna try to restrain him - he came into house, he broke the rules. I guess different parts of the world have different ways of dealing with things, and it is directly related to the levels of violence you are exposed to and raised around. But here in America, whether it's right of wrong, people are afraid in their own homes at night - too many stories of home invasions, killings, robberies - and so, yes, they want to feel like they have some sort of control or the ability to defend themselves.
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Boss Man
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by Boss Man »

Them's the rules here. It's the addage of two wrongs don't make a right. Yes trespassing in someones home isn't right, but many would see the retention of a makeshift weapon, in close proximity to a householders bed, as an act of premeditation.

There is then the possibility that any kind of physical contact with such a weapon, when used in those circumstances, could count favourably in the intruders sentancing, I.E. reduce his sentance a little, whilst implicating the householder or other acting resident, in an act of premeditated criminal intent.

It could also be classed as taking the law into your own hands. Something along the lines of "If anyone ever tries to come into property, I'll be ready with this golf club" type attitude. A kind of vigilatism gone wrong some might say, as opposed to the "good" kind, where you rugby tackle someone, who is trying to steal money off someone at knife point, for example.

The countries way to try and impose a does as we want, not do as you wish type system, I suppose to suppress mild outbursts of anarchy :?.
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by musculargirl »

I don't agree with that law you have over there Boss. I think that's too invasive on peoples freedom I believe. Anyone should have the right to have a makeshift weapon by their bed if they want to defend themselves in their own home. Just thoughts. Its interesting to hear other countries laws though. Listening to people from different countries on this forum I really believe we all are quite alike but like that law and our own gun policies show we are also different.


You know what bothers me a lot on american laws. Is the law that says 15 or 16 year olds have the right to drive. I think it should be 18. I have a pretty responsible 15 year old nephew and even with him i'm scared to death of him driving making decisions that can effect his life and other people's as well. I just don't agree with that law at all. Just thought i would addd that here, because I guess i"m too lazy to start a new thread on it. :)

Unfortunately with a lot of these laws, society has become so accustomed to these laws being what they are that to change them I think would be a hard thing to accomplish.
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Re: Gun Crime In America

Post by Boss Man »

In Britain it's not legal to drive on the roads until you're 17, unless it's a Motorbike, in which case it's 16, but you're limited to 50cc or less when learning.
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