Fat loss - Cardio vs Weights

[time_to_move_it]

Hey all,

I have read quite a bit about how weight training only supplements your goal of fat loss. But I am not really sure on where to draw the line!

6 month goal is to get ripped abs ( very optimistic ). I had a couple of questions regarding the routine i need to follow and some general stuff.

1) From what I hear, I gather that it is better to lose the gut/ fat before you embark on a 6 pack mission. Is there any merit in this idea?

2) I currently go to the gym for around 2 hours daily. typical Cardio routine is 20 minutes on the treadmill and then 15 minutes on a stationery bike on a daily basis. I work out on a 4 day cycle.
Day 1 - Cardio + biceps+ back
Day 2 - Cardio + triceps + Chest
Day 3 - Cardio + Shoulders + Legs
Day 4 - Cardio + Abs

Considering that I dont have the strongest of core/ abs. I was going to increase abs workout to every alternate day. What is your take on the routine? I have roughly around 21-22% body fat ( from all the estimated calculators on net ). This has decreased from 24-25% when i started working out earlier. I used to weigh 81Kg when i joined the gym initially, now its down to 76 Kg in the last 4 months.

Do you think its better to make workout routine a 7 day cycle?
Day 1/3/5/7 - Cardio + Abs
Day 2 - Cardio + biceps + back
Day 4 - Cardio + triceps + Chest
Day 6 - Cardio + Shoulders + Legs

I was also considering an alternative of something like increase cardio to 30 min treadmill + 30 min cycling on the 'Cardio + Abs' days i pointed out.

I do run at an average pace of 9 km/h and cycle at 16 Km/hr usually. Do you think i need to crank up the speed here, perhaps?

Please keep in mind that goal is a 6 month one. I am hoping to gain more insight on what is a good mix of cardio and weights to enhance the fat loss. Depending on what the recommendations are, I will get into more detail on getting the nutrition to the workout right.

Hoping to get some insightful responses!
Thanks!

[zenphitness]

I have to say, I admire your dedication to getting six pack abs! I am working on that myself and it is a little bit of a struggle, but I can share with you what I have learned in the process so far (a little human laziness can keep me from getting there, even if I know how, right?):

A couple of simple thoughts to help keep you on track:

-Workouts lasting longer than 45 minutes - 60 minutes result in high levels of cortisol being released (this triggers the storage and creation of fat) it is ok to work out longer, just have a strategy in place to lower the stress hormones like breathing relaxation exercises, vitamin C ingestion, meditation, a 15 minute break every 45 minutes, etc.

-Hormone control! There are a number of different hormones that are affected by your workouts that also affect the storage of fat and the development of lean muscle. Estrogen, testosterone, HGH, cortisol are affected by workouts. I like the metabolic resistance training paradigm to control these. In your diet pay attention to what you eat, learn about the glycemic index, because insulin is the hormone that tells food to be stored as fat, so you want to keep it in a healthy zone so you are using everything you are eating.

-Plateaus. Everyone hits plateaus, whether they are increasing strength, losing weight, or getting a six pack. If you must stick to one routine, do it for no longer than 4-6weeks. If you want to do one better, do a different high intensity circuit routine every time you work out. Another reason why I recommend metabolic resistance training is that you can customize your own work outs easily, and learn about muscle complexes that absolutely destroy fat and build lean muscle.

I hope this information helps, and if you have any questions let me know, I always love to learn more, and love talking about this stuff.
http://www.zenphitness.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[zenphitness]

I also just updated blog with a brief summary of MRT if you are interested: http://zenphitness.blogspot.com/2012/02 ... -made.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[time_to_move_it]

Hye Zenfitness! Appreciate your detailed response

Saw your site. I am not sure if your marathon in DC is over yet. Either way i hope you completed it! I ran 10K run and i know it is VERY exhausting! going 4times that is gonna be one heckuva task! good luck with that!

I noted two important things that caught attention - MRT and hormone causing fat. I had known about the circuit training way of exercising through the books and stuff but never really took it seriously. I am going to reconsider this and probably do MRT twice a week so as to surprise body.

As you mentioned about the hormone that causes to increase fat as result of around 40-45 min of stressful workout. I was wondering if i did break down routine into two distinct parts - Cardio and Weight training.. both lasting around 40-45 min and then a break of 10-15 min to cool down the body.. what kind of food should i take pre/post both these sessions?

I went supplement shopping and someone told me that i should take a whey which in a 30g serving had 20-25g protien and less than 3g fat&5g carbs. Could you give me pointer on what is the importance of this. I saw cheaper powders with more carbs in a serving. Can you explain what is the problem with high carbs in a supplement?

[Boss Man]

High Carbs could encourage Fat gain, if the Carbs are not used for energy and get converted to Fat.

However Carbs help to synthesise Protein. Around 40% of protein intake is converted to Glycogen by Insulin, but to get the Insulin activity Carbs should be present.

A good powder to take would be a concentrate or Isolate, or the newer one Hydrolysate, with Carbs and if they have increased levels of Gluatamine and BCAA's all the better.

Use the past as a guide though. Arnie never used protein powders and probably juiced when he got some massive natural mass. It's highly unlikely he put on 10-20lbs of mass, then was forced to juice. People like Arnie proved hard work and calories can make it happen upto a point and that even a basic Protein powder doesn't need to be used, because when he started out they didn't exist, well not until the early to mid 70's I believe, tasted like mud so I believe too, but they can help and often do taste better these days

I make this point to ward you off the costly powders. The ones with "proprietary blends", loads of minerals, herbs and fancy names etc. They are expensive and not worth your time or hard earned money. Whatever increased gains they may give you versus some guy of similar build, who uses a basic powder, why spend anywhere between 25%-100% more for a tub, possibly hit peak mass, approximately 3-6 months sooner than that guy, when he will catch up and save a lot of money, because chances are people using expensive stuff would keep doing it, costing them thousands upon thousands of wasted dollars, pounds etc, in their lifetimes, for nothing, because when you stop getting the gains, all you'd be paying for was a "feeling", the way it made you feel, in a way that a cheaper powder might not make you feel.

In the long run it's not worth paying another $10-$30 a tub, to get a feeling off a supplement.

So by all means use a powder and one with Carbs for definite, but keep it simple. No need for loads of minerals or any herbs. 2-8 ingredients max and you're good to go .

Example I used one with this kind of makeup.

Protein
Maltodextrin
Creatine 3g
Pea Fibre
Arginine
BCAA's
Glutamine.

That type of product could come with something like HMB in it which is fine, or ZMA for example, obviously mine didn't, but the ones with loads of ingredients are a pain, because you're then googling a lot of them, especially the herbal ones, to see what they do and can they cause problems when you consume caffeine, alcohol or meds and what amounts of those ingredients is acceptable, so you're not paying for a pricey supplement with pissy levels of stuff in it.

The expensive ones are just hype marketing, B.S. and money making ventures for the seller and maker pure and simple. If Arnie didn't need supps with 20 ingredients in, to get big natural mass, nobody does, pure and simple bud.

So keep the powder simple, no more than 8 ingredients necessary and make sure none of them are herbal ones, so you know what you're consuming and know you'll be getting adequate amounts.

Ingredients like BCAA's, Glutamine, Maltodextrin are fairly self expalnatory and don't require loads of googling, to check for adequate quantity and potential side effects, so it makes your eventual choice and brand research a heck of a lot easier.

[time_to_move_it]

ahh right thanks boss man!

i am not sure how couple of more 3-4g carbs in a 30g serving may not be burned off. I do burn 500-600 cal in cardio session and i have moved on to interval training so that i can burn more fat. today was first day at it and at end of it legs felt like lead!

I was getting a whey protein powder of british nutrition at half the rate of ON. the only downside on the BN front is 8g of carb in a 30g serving while ON gold whey had 2g carbs in 30g serving. BCAA's and rest f the constituents form only a very very minimal part of these powders. So I guess with the main aim of mine to make sure i am not going to lose muscle mass during cardio - the BN thing works well on the pocket front.

Other thing i learned about today was casein. Is it a good idea to mix casein and whey for a post workout shake( after weight training session ) ?

[Boss Man]

Less Casein is better.

Casein would be more beneficial if you took Protein at night. It has 8 calories per gram versus 4 for normal protein, so its anti-catabolic muscle sparing actions are greater.

After workouts it will work, but for better and faster usage of protein, Whey is good and the less Casein in the Whey the better, to improve digestion, but obviously purer whey Proteisn cost more.

Also use Water not Milk, the reasons being

A: Milk makes the shakes more viscous potentially slowing down the absorption.

B: Milk contains Casein

C: Milk adds more calories.

D: Milk contains Lactose, creating more Enzymatic competition, as the body will have to produce the Lactase enzyme, to breakdown the Galactose part of the Lactose Di-saccharide.

The only minor upside is the Protein synthesising benefit from Lactose, as being a sugar it would help stimulate Insulin, but otherwise it's not worth it.

If Shakes taste a bit bland, tweak them with things like ground Ginger, ground Nutmeg, Mocha Powder, Cinnamon, Vanilla Essence, a bit of honey or more than one of those things and see how that works. Trial and error initially but you'd get there in the end taste wise if that was possible.

If you simply couldn't find a happy medium regarding taste, where using water and one or more additions was concerned then use milk, but otherwise try not to as it will slow down the absorption rate after workouts when you want faster absorption.

As for the added Carbs, it's only another 5-6g per serving compared to the ON you talked about, so even i those 20-24 calories stored as Fat, it's hardly a major issue, as opposed to eating a 1,500 calorie Pizza after workouts, which would be.

Though I expect you wouldn't do that anyway

[time_to_move_it]

Hey Bossman,

Thanks for that detailed explanation on action of Caesin.. I guess two glasses of milk and 2 cups of curds a day would take care of that..

Taking your advise i have not added milk while consuming whey supplement.

Anyway i have been following a strict diet where i am totally avoiding white rice and fast food or liquor ( 1 month now ) ... I have lost 2kgs since the start of the month while i have added on a little muscle mass ( it shows on arms - *flex muscles* ) through weight training!..

I ended up buying high quality weigh protein.. yea i set me back by some price but i don't want to compromise on quality even if its little bit..

hopefully i can keep up this discipline!