Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

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Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby SCPrl » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:36 pm

Hi. I've got a few questions that I figure you guys could probably help me with.

I've heard mixed opinions on squats and lunges, about which is more effective, and that it may be redundant to do both. Do you think that's true? I wouldn't know, but I find it much more taxing to do lunges than squats, which led me to believe I may be working other, less developed muscles. It may just be an issue of balance and depth for me, though, since lunges are so much closer to the floor, and your feet aren't so grounded.
Do you know if they work the same muscle groups, if it would be pointless to do them both in the same workout, but would it be a good idea to switch it up and do squats one workout and lunges another?
Also, I do tae-bo as a cardio exercise, and they incorporate squats in most videos, so if I were to do squats while weight training and then again in the next day's cardio, would my leg muscles still be getting enough rest? Because I definitely feel that they've already been worked during weights as I'm doing my cardio.

As for deadlifts, I've just recently begun doing this sort of exercise, and I'm unsure about proper form. I really want to work my lower back muscles properly so that I don't become uneven and risk injury, but when I looked up deadlifts, I saw two different ways they were performed.
Do you bend your knees in squatting form and keep your arms straight throughout the movement or do you bend at the waist and pull the weight up with your arms? And can deadlifts be effectively performed with dumbbells or is it absolutely imperative that you use a bar?

Thanks for any help. =]
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby swanso5 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:14 pm

both are good but if i had to go with one i'd lunges for sure...for strength squats are great but most don't have the mobility to do them preoperly which can lead to injuries

lunges work more muscles too which is why they're harder

for most i'd have them either deadlift heavy and lunge or squat heavy and lunge but rarely both...i do both sometimes though

a bw squat is easy, you can't compare it to a squat or lunge in anyway so keep with them

your talking about romanian deadlifts of which there is semi stiff and stiff legged...always go the semi stiff option but try rack pulls which are shortend range of motion regular deadlifts which will allow more wt to be used so again great for strength...i have my clients deadlift from a mid shin type ht to avoid any mobility restrictions they may have

i also prefer a bar for rdl's
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby SCPrl » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:55 pm

I had just googled "deadlift," and there were various videos that sounded pretty adamant about using their form, but they didn't say which kind of deadlift they were doing. Now that I know there are so many types, I can look them up specifically and use proper form for that type. I looked up Romanian deadlifts, and I'm definitely going to try them in my next workout.
I'm also going to do both squats and lunges, but focus more on lunges since it seems like those muscles need more development.

Thank you both for the quick and detailed replies.
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby swanso5 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:10 pm

regular deadlifts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-wOHN5tdw

romanian deadlifts - the bloke here doesn't follow through with his hips..do a pelvic tilt at the very top (squeeze your arse as hard as you can for a second each rep)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnBREGM7pE0

sumo deadlifts 0 just a wuider stance and hands inside legs...requires less mobility

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r--etdWUmc0

single leg deadlifts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWLg7MrA9y4

rack pulls - this is where you should start to get the form down and work down to the floor gradually

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX25JXycqlM


www.uponlinetraining.com
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby SCPrl » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:49 pm

Thank you. Those videos are very helpful. =]
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby Packard » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:31 am

Power cleans and lunges have the advantage of explosiveness, which is very useful in many (most) athletic activities. Squats do not have any explosiveness component.
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby swanso5 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:55 pm

how come lunges do and squats don't?

squats can if you want to do them that way
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby Packard » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:00 am

swanso5 wrote:how come lunges do and squats don't?

squats can if you want to do them that way


I guess you could explode up on the squat, almost jumping up, but I've never seen it done that way by anyone. On the other hand, lunges are generally done with a good bit of speed.

Often times in training camps, strong and well-stretched out athletes get all sorts of "pulls". I am firmly of the opinion those pulls are not from inadequate exercise, or lack of flexibility, but from the body's unfamiliarity with "sudden accelerations" (those fast twitch muscles).

Most lifting exercises do not work the fast twitch muscles at all; if you try to do it with weights you will introduce inertia and will not be working a part of the muscle range. You can do this with pneumatic or hydraulic equipment, but there is not very much of it out there.

Lunges can (and usually are) done with speed (and inertia) and are good athletic exercises. But they do not work the muscles through the full range as the intermediate range is generally passed over due to inertia. Lunges are excellent exercises but they should be supplemented with squats to over come that problem.
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby SCPrl » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:44 am

I think I can feel what you're talking about. Lunges definitely feel like a more fluent and strenuous motion, like there's less easing and stopping. I've done exercise videos that have you come back up from a squat into a kick, alternating sides without pausing, and that felt similar, but not as strenuous.
I've started doing both, more lunges than squats, to cover my bases and add some variety. I also do Romanian deadlifts and bent over rows, and I feel like I'm getting a much more effective workout for specific muscles now that the difference is clear and I'm not mixing the exercises or using improper form.
Thanks everyone. :D
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby Packard » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:59 am

SCPrl wrote:I think I can feel what you're talking about. Lunges definitely feel like a more fluent and strenuous motion, like there's less easing and stopping. I've done exercise videos that have you come back up from a squat into a kick, alternating sides without pausing, and that felt similar, but not as strenuous.
I've started doing both, more lunges than squats, to cover my bases and add some variety. I also do Romanian deadlifts and bent over rows, and I feel like I'm getting a much more effective workout for specific muscles now that the difference is clear and I'm not mixing the exercises or using improper form.
Thanks everyone. :D


Power cleans are also good athletic motions. It is simply a clean done for repititions. Some people like to power clean + one rep shoulder press. The power clean + one rep shoulder press works almost every muscle in the body, and if you only have time for one exercise this is the one to do. (But expect to be breathing very hard at the end of a set of 10 reps.)
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby swanso5 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:20 pm

powerlifters do squats for speed all the time 8 sets of 2 @ 40 - 60%
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby Packard » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:26 pm

swanso5 wrote:powerlifters do squats for speed all the time 8 sets of 2 @ 40 - 60%


As fast as they can with 400 pounds on the shoulders is a very slow motion--and does not involve the fast twitch muscles.

That is why jumping exercises (no weights) are used for athletics. To involve the fast twitch muscles.

You cannot do curls with fast twitch muscles without cheating so much that it becomes an parody of the exercise. You cannot do fast twitch squats without lowering the weights so much that they become deep knee bends.
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby swanso5 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:17 pm

fast tewitch muscle fibre doesn't require actual speed of movement, so long as the intent is to move as quick as possible
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby Packard » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:33 am

swanso5 wrote:fast tewitch muscle fibre doesn't require actual speed of movement, so long as the intent is to move as quick as possible



You think so? Is there any science behind that? I think you have to move fast to involve the fast twitch muscles (but I have no science to back that up).

I think that you should train your body the way you plan to use your body. So I am OK with football (American football) players doing powerlifting off season, but I think that 6 weeks prior to training camp they should switch to pliometrics and other rapid acceleration exercises.
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Re: Squats, Lunges, and Deadlifts

Postby swanso5 » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:01 pm

here's one... i9 haven't read it for years but it should explain it in there somewhere:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... st_get_big

it's all about intent

most football teams use the conjugate method which is where you train multiple strength qualitites at the same time...the troublw with linear programming 9hyprtrophy, strength, power phases) is that you improve a quality in one phase and lose it the next phase

a sample week might look like this:

max effort upper body - basically the first exercise is a heavy low rep one so you might work up to a 5 or 3 rep max (rarely a 1rm), 3 x 3 etc then use assistant exercises for the rest of the workout

max effort lower body - same

dynamic effort upper body - first exercise is a mb toss variation, plyomtric push up or speed benches to work on explosiveness then assistant exercises for the rest of the session

dynamic effort lower body - first exercise is a plyometric exercise such as a jump or maybe an olypmic lift then assistant exercises for the rest of the session

depending on what you need you may replace the dynamic effort day with a repetition day where the first exercise will be a high rep variation such as 3 x 20 on a db bench press etc or a push up drop set thing

accessroy work is geared towards your weakness

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