Help with basics?

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tracing114
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Help with basics?

Post by tracing114 »

Hi there, first and foremost, I have found the posts on this site pretty helpful and advice sound. first post, so I apologize in advance if I did this incorrectly. I have a few questions I would appreciate your help with feedback and guidance on. I started health journey about 8 weeks ago. This week marks 9th week.

Basic stats: Current weight: 168#, Height: About 5'3, Age: 41.5 yrs.

work out plan consists:
Upper/Lower strength training, alternating every other day. I have been able to increase the weights since I first began so that tells me I am building strength.

Cardio - When I first started, I used to jog every other day (in between weight days) but injured ankles about a month ago, so I stopped it all together for a couple weeks to let it rest/heal. I was running for about 1 hr each time, switching in between the paces not actually timing specific intervals. I get in about 3-4 miles per hour. I added it back about 2 weeks ago (jogging on treadmill, pace 3.5 - 4.8 max, incline 1.0, and ONLY after weight training just to get cardio but not a hard fast rule.

Food:
I have doing whey shakes and try to eat healthy (smaller portions) getting in 4-5 meals a day. I have read a couple posts that says limit on those and try to eat more vs drink to keep metabolism going. I know I need to tweak meals based on Bossman's comments of basic caloric intake - I don't think I'm fueling myself. I was trying to average around 1200-1300 cals a day. Shakes run me about 250 cals at most and the meals I eat would dinner or lunch, and those could be about 300?

Water: at least 80-100 ounces daily....

Issue: I have not seen any significant weight loss but have noticed very small subtle changes in some clothing, so I know I've made progress. Just not as significant as I thought it would be by the 8 week mark, and the scale does not want to go down. It's a bit frustrating but maybe I am not patient enough. This is not to say no progress has been made...but rather I feel like something is off and I have to adjust to make this work better. Or maybe this is the expectation and I need to give it more time.

questions are as follow:

1) Could you help suggest a a meal plan to adjust/try to see if I can maximize muscle gain/fat loss? I read the post about the food layout, and I still need to digest it some more...alot to process and understand. How does the weighing of food work - is it always cooked food that is the final weight amount, like for certain meats and veggies?

2) I saw a couple post of the basic plan Bossman put together. question is, why do you only stop at 2 sets on this plan? I've been doing 4/5 sets of 10-12. Does doing 2 sets really all you need? I was thinking of tweaking it to do 3 sets of 10 but is that too much/unnecessary? I want to give that plan a try over the next few weeks for the full body and cardio in between to see if that will help nudge.

If there are additional questions, please ask...I don't know what other details you need for better assessment. Thank you again for taking the time to read this and your help. Have a great day, Traci
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Boss Man
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Re: Help with basics?

Post by Boss Man »

Hi Traci, good to speak with you.

Two sets is what I normally suggest for people just starting out, but it isn't a forever thing, just the first 4-6 weeks of adjustment, so I would say you could increase to 3 sets per exercise at 2 exercises per muscle group, unless the 5-6 sets you mentioned is per muscle group, then stick with that, but I would adjust the frequency of the weight training as you could be doing too much, especially as your calories at this moment are not high enough per day.

As for the upper / lower strategy it is a fine one, so it could work like this.

Monday. Upper body + Cardio

Tuesday. Lower body

Wednesday. Day off

Thursday. Upper body + Cardio

Friday. Lower body

Saturday. Cardio

Sunday. Day off

As for weight of food, count the weight of the food when uncooked. Food does lose some of it's nutrient profile when cooked, but for calculating the weight of food, if you have to, then go with the raw uncooked amount.

As for the diet what times do you eat at and what foods do you eat at those times?
tracing114
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Re: Help with basics?

Post by tracing114 »

Hi Bossman, thank you so much for taking the time to reply. Here are follow ups:

"unless the 5-6 sets you mentioned is per muscle group" - Not sure I understand. I'll give you an example of what I've been doing and you can tell me if it's too little/much. Also, for cardio, can I do other stuff like classes (TurboKick where they do cardio and alternative forms of cardio...I don't like running in general but have found it is effective is all).

Leg Work out today: 4 x 10 reps because I upped weights today
- Squats with short curl bar (I think it's 20lbs) - added weights 7.5 on each side - upped 2.5 from last week
- Deadlifts with short curl bar - added weights on each side 17.5 - upped 2.5 from last week - i started out with a plain straight bar to get the form...then have slowly added over the last couple of weeks.
- Inner Thigh squeeze thingy - 80lbs - upped 10 from last week (ALTHOUGH, i'm reading this machine is a waste of time maybe??)
- Calf Raises - 95lbs - upped from 75 last week
- Step ups - with 12lbs on each side - I read these work the same muscles as lunges and would prefer these over lunges if they are just as effective.
- Leg Press - 45lbs on each side

Afterwards I did 3 sets of 30 second planks...first attempt and will build on it. After that I walked at about 3.0 pace for about 1.5 miles incline 1.0.

Upper Body is as follow:
- Bicep Curls - 40lb bar (upped from 35lbs last week)
- Triceps pushdown - short bar ( not sure on weights cuz the numbers are all gone, but I go 4th down from top?)
- Lateral pulls (70lbs)
- Seated Cable Row (75lbs - upped from 70lbs last week)
- Seated Cable Chest (not sure on numbers again - count 5 down from top)
- Should Shrugs - there is this machine I use but I don't know the name of it (will get the name) but I think they're for legs workout. You add the weights on the sides, and there are two bars you can lift up. I put the weights on the lower rung. That I do 30lbs each side.
- Bent Over Row - I only tried this twice now. Did 25lbs first, and then 30lbs 2nd time as I felt I could do more.
- Bench Press - I've been using a 35lb bar. I did first incline bench press last week with the long bar (I think they're 40lbs) just to get a sense of how it would feel. I did 3 sets of 10, and 1 of 8 because I wasn't used to it. OR, i would just the chest press machine (45lbs).
- And IF i wanted, I would do the seated tricep push (60lbs)...sometimes I will do this one, and sometimes not.
**I want to try to add in push ups eventually - am not good with them.


For meals, here is typical for the past few weeks - Sun thru Fri. On Sat, I will indulge a bit but not CRAZY...

8:30am - 2 espresso shots with sweet cream (I know you are not a big proponent on caffeine but this one I won't give up...LOL, call it a vice). I don't generally drink anymore coffee thru the day (maybe a cup...maybe). Then I'll drink one Whey protein shake with Almond Milk (140 cals for the whey, recently switched to sugar free almond milk (1cup - 30 cals).

11:30am -Lunch is open. I get catered meals so I can choose from a variety of different kinds of food. Portion here is generally palm size for meats, and fist size for veggie and carb (but I generally don't have a carb). I will add in mushrooms slices or extra raw veggies like cucumber.

3:30pm - Quick protein shake OR some fruit with cottage cheese

6:30 - Dinner - I'll have meat (chicken or beef or fish (salmon) with watermelon or a some fruit for carbs.

9/10pm - Last meal - casein shake with Almond Milk.

Of course water, water, water....

Writing food out now, I'm seeing I am not likely getting the right source of fuel. Very open to learning - thank you again for you help/guidance. Also, regarding weighing the foods, how can I measure stuff cooked? It will be so much easier vs the raw. I am a single mom to 4 (ages 4.5 - 20) and I have a very demanding job where hours are long. workout time can be whenever I can get to the gym...and I try to go before the mad usual rush time but it's not always the same time every day.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback. main goal is of fat loss/muscle gain. Ideal overall goal of 135-145 (muscle vs flab ya know?)

Thanks and have a wonderful day! Traci
tracing114
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Re: Help with basics?

Post by tracing114 »

oh and one more add for upper
- Side lateral raises - 12lbs (4x10)
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Boss Man
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Re: Help with basics?

Post by Boss Man »

This kind of eating system might work for you. It's something I've posted before.

Breakfast

Option 1.

Bowl of Whole-grain Cereal and scrambled Eggs, (2 Egg Whites + Yolk)

Option 2.

Protein shake, small portion of Nuts, (excluding higher carb ones like Cashews, Chestnuts and Grapenuts).


Snack

Option 1.

Portion of Turkey + Orange

Option 2.

Small Portion of Peanuts, some Chicken


Lunch

Option 1.

Large Beef Sandwich with trimmings, I.E. Tomato, Lettuce, Cucumber etc.

Option 2.

Bowl of Chicken Soup, + Pot of yoghurt.


Snack

Option 1.

Turkey + Cashews

Option 2.

Ham + 2 large Tomatos


Dinner

Option 1.

Pork with mashed Potato.

Option 2.

Chicken and Rice

Option 3.

100g Halibut + Broccoli


Snack

Option 1.

Beans on Toast

Option 2.

Ham Sandwich, no trimmings.

Easy on the bread with both options.

You could add a few things to certain meals, like Sea Salt, Cracked Black Pepper, Parsley, Mustard, Herbs, Garlic.

The inner thigh squeezy thingy as you called it, is an adductor / abductor machine and to be honest it's a favourite of many females and from observations, to a lesser extent males and frankly it's not worth a dime to me and I've never used one once in all of 18 years of working out.

As for this part of message you quoted "unless the 5-6 sets you mentioned is per muscle group". I wasn't sure if you were doing 5-6 sets of work on every muscle group, or doing more than one exercise per muscle group and 5-6 sets per exercise.

One thing to remember is always train your small muscle groups after the big ones, as you need them to stabilise and synergise big movements like bench press for example and you risk not being as good on big movements if your smaller muscles are partially fatigued, whereas you will get some secondary stimulation on the biceps from row movements and triceps from press movements.

Always have an equal amount of row and press sets and when you do chest do it before back, as back helps to stabilise your chest, so you might affect a chest workout doing your back first.
tracing114
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Re: Help with basics?

Post by tracing114 »

Hi Bossman, thanks for the reply once more...much appreciated. I did some searches on the internet and it has been the shrug machine I've used all along. I guess sometimes folks use it for single squats which is why I thought it was a leg machine, so I am using the right machine for shrugs. :D
As for this part of message you quoted "unless the 5-6 sets you mentioned is per muscle group". I wasn't sure if you were doing 5-6 sets of work on every muscle group, or doing more than one exercise per muscle group and 5-6 sets per exercise.
Question: Do you think the exercises I listed out, doing 4-5 sets @10/12 resting 30-45 secs is suffice? I might rest for 1 minute if set #4 is having me huff and puff a bit at the end. In general, I aim for 5x12 but when I up weights then I will do 4x10 until I get stronger to build to 5x12. Is that too much?
One thing to remember is always train your small muscle groups after the big ones, as you need them to stabilise and synergise big movements like bench press for example and you risk not being as good on big movements if your smaller muscles are partially fatigued, whereas you will get some secondary stimulation on the biceps from row movements and triceps from press movements.
Question: could you please help elaborate on this or point me to where I can a) read what is considered "smaller muscles" for upper/lower? b) types of exercises to do? Do these need to be done at home or do they need to done with weights at the gym, etc?
Always have an equal amount of row and press sets and when you do chest do it before back, as back helps to stabilise your chest, so you might affect a chest workout doing your back first.
Question: All of sets are the same on all exercises for weight days. Meaning if I just did I will keep in mind the chest first then back. The order I listed below is not in that set order specifically. So basically do chest press and chest cable pecs before rows right? Also, I did a flat bench press with 40lb barbell, but it didn't feel as hard as when I did the bench incline with that long bar only. I was told both weights are the same but why did the long bar feel much heavier? Is it due to the incline vs the the lying down flat? I'm not targeting one specific muscle groups but try to get in the compound ones. I tried upper and a cardio kickboxing class yesterday, and it was good but tough because I am new to the class. Should I space out the muscles workouts as I've seen in other workout plan samples? Like work a specific muscle throughout the week? I like the simplicity of calling it either upper or lower only days, and then maybe add cardio in between. Thoughts on that?

As for the food menu, I will review and see what will work and adjust using your other food post. I'm assuming your meal plan below is based on spacing eating every 3 hours right? I have found it difficult to get in 6 meals consistently with schedule. I have been more successful with 4/5. What are your thoughts on maybe have slightly a bit more cals, like 4 vs 6? This will take some adjustments to see what I can prep and also meals that I won't get bored over.

As usual, thank you so much for your time and guidance...have a great day and I look forward to hearing from you. Traci
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Re: Help with basics?

Post by Boss Man »

Smaller muscle groups means biceps, triceps and delts in the main, but there are many variations of bicep exercises involving, bars, cables, benches etc like E-Z bar curls, reverse E-Z bar curls, dumbbell curls, hammer curls, cable curls, preacher curls, zottman curls, skullcrushers, tricep press, dips, lateral raises, front raises, just to name some, which would be benefited from being done at the gym not at home, as if you're doing big muscles with artificial weight rather than body weight it makes sense to do that for small muscles too.

As for the meal plan, yes it's based on 2.5-3 hour meal spaces.

incline benching is harder because the bar starts out being elevated further away from the origins of the gravitational pull. I:E: the gym floor and then you're pushing the bar even further from the floor, compared to doing flat benching, so because of this, you cannot use as much weight.

If you do bar based exercises versus dumbbell equivalents I:E dumbbell curls versus E-Z bar curls, the bar will tolerate a little of the weight as opposed to the weight of each dumbbell channeled into your arms in full, so you could for example use 10kg dumbbell's, but find that including the bar weight you might be able to use 22.5kg's for the same number of reps, not 20kg's, so then you'd need to be aware of this because if you used for example 25kg of bar and disc weight you couldn't drop down to 12.5kg dumbbells or you could struggle a bit, so you might find you'd need to use 10kg ones instead, if all that makes sense.

As for the comment about chest before back, yes, because as I said back stabilises chest not the other way around, so working your chest first shouldn't have any adverse affect on your back, but doing back first may have an adverse affect on the chest portion of your upper body workout.

In general I would say you would only need around 10 sets a week on your big muscles and 8 on the small ones, as the small ones are trained indirectly by some large muscle group exercises, I:E: row and press movements, so there is no need to go gung ho on small muscle group work.
tracing114
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Re: Help with basics?

Post by tracing114 »

Hi Bossman, I have a couple follow up questions I wanted to get your thoughts on:

1)I am still learning on tracking food and intake. Have you ever used an app tracker for calorie tracking? I downloaded the LiveStrong app called MyPlate. MyFitnessPal is another popular one. It takes into consideration how active you are, and then calculates the calories you need. Do you have any experience in using this? I read in couple other quick searches on these types of apps that I should set activity level to Sedentary, otherwise it will double count calories burned when synced with a calorie tracker, and then I would actually be eating more than I should. Setting at Sedentary level, for example, today I consumed 1577 calories (61g (intake)/40g(allowed) Fats , 154/120g Carbs, and 109/90g Protein). watch calculates burned calories at 953 (this counts all steps I took plus any recorded exercises - today I did upper and then a cardio class), so by end of night I still have 586 calories left I'm able to consume? Does that sound right? If I set it to Moderately active then I think the threshold is 1800 calories allowance and so forth.

2) Chest before back - does this mean I do ALL chest exercises FIRST and get them out of the way before I do ANY back? Or can I do, chest/back/chest/back?

Thanks for any feedback and advice you have. Have a great day! Traci
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Re: Help with basics?

Post by Boss Man »

I have never used any such food tracker websites no, but I did once download a PC app called Diets In Details which is pretty easy to use and has an interesting interface. It wasn't because I was serious about using it, but because it interested me and I wanted to see what it was about.

As for the second question you asked, you could do what you suggested yes, because in theory it would cause limited impact on how intensely you could do any secondary or tertiary portions of the chest work, but for maximising your ability to train your chest when you're intending to also do back work, I still maintain the interpretation you gave which is ot do all the chest exercises before all the back ones.
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