Carbs

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Bonnie
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Carbs

Post by Bonnie »

When are the times to eat them, because I just read info that contradicts what Ive learned here, so what are the basic rules ?..
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Boss Man
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Re: Carbs

Post by Boss Man »

Carb are Carbs. People using the term Carbs, for any specific reason is a bit bogus.

There a differing ones, like Quick Digesting, (Monosaccharides, Disacharrides), then long digesting ones, (Oligosaccharides, Starches, Fibre). Then Soluable and Insoluable Fibre.

Eat them with every meal, because you need them to give you energy, and fuel the Brain, as examples.

If you're referring to high GI ones, like Whole-grains, Watermelon, Parsnips, Rice, Potato, Pasta etc etc, thne you have two ways of doing it.

A: limted portions.

B: mixing them with lower GI foods, like Legumes, Tomatos, Broccoli, Cashews, Mushrooms, etc etc.

You can check out a post I made to Frenchmaid recently, about understanding the impact of mixed GI foods / working out how you can do that.

The best times to eat high GI would be.

A: when you wake when Bloodsugar is low. Although no going nutso on them, but you could maybe have as much as a 35% Bloodsugar spike / 35% Glycemic Load, because of this, when normally it shouldn't above 20%.

B: After workouts.

So you can go high GI, as long as you be careful not to go too high on the content too often and by mixing in a goodly portion of lower GI ones, you can have a good high low balance, which means you don't have to limit high ones to select times, unless you want to.

Does that answer what you asked at all?
swanso5
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Re: Carbs

Post by swanso5 »

if you wanna be hardcore then a modrate amount after wts training only (don't count veg here, eat as many as you like - potato, corn and peas are starches though remember)

if you wanna be semi hardcore then have a small amount at breakfast and a moderate amount after wts

if you wanna be normal then a moderate amount at breakfast and after wts

you need to make up any lost carb cal's with protein and fat though
Bonnie
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Re: Carbs

Post by Bonnie »

Well that is a bit confusing, boss man says with every meal & swanso says @ breakfast & after weights..what if it is cardio day ?..then only at breakfast & what in gods name does a person replace bread @ lunch with & rice or potato @ dinner ? What do u people eat ? ..Im off to shop tomorrow, also think I need find new ways to cook, as im starting to become bored of eating the same thing & im sure montreal steak spice with its salt as first ingredient is so NOT good : (
swanso5
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Re: Carbs

Post by swanso5 »

like i said if you wann abe hardcore and focus on nothing but FAT loss, then way is the way to go

like i also said if you wanna be normal then you can do bossman's way

i'm about to start a 28 intensive fat loss phase tomorrow where i'll be having almost no carbs at all and a day of meat only

not fun but it will drop 10 or so pds of FAT off me
Bonnie
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Re: Carbs

Post by Bonnie »

Sooo whatcha goin to eat ?....I think Ill land somewhat in the semi hardcore for now, so as not to deprive myself suddenly, I read that carbs r what produces seritonin in the brain..though I take an antidepressant already, so I should be covered on that.I'm not satisfied with mediocre physique, so I will adjust things to lose the fat, thanks swanso & boss man for the info :D
swanso5
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Re: Carbs

Post by swanso5 »

meat and fish oil really for 28 days, no fun at all but 28 days of this will let me do what i want for the next 12 months
Bonnie
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Re: Carbs

Post by Bonnie »

Oh, so after this, u can eat like a normal person ? Awesome..though for myself, I think with the depression afoot, Id not have the mental fortitude, to undertake such a journey, not sure I could do it with all ducks in a row, nevermind a few with askew feathers already :shock: Anywho, happy meat eating to you. Ill take the middle ground for now :)
swanso5
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Re: Carbs

Post by swanso5 »

it will finish the week of x mas so i'll load up at that time

as for you it wouldn't be so bad as you'll literally see the wt fall off which would keep you motivated and it is also only for a short time
Bonnie
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Re: Carbs

Post by Bonnie »

So meat & fish oil for 28 days ?..I recall cassie getting downright well, for lack of a better term " nuts " without carbs, no offense dear cassie :D Lemme see about cutting them in half, then if that doesnt shed enough fat, I'll take the next step :)
swanso5
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Re: Carbs

Post by swanso5 »

cassie did it for 12 weeks or something though..this is simply 4 weeks with a small amount of carbs
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Boss Man
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Re: Carbs

Post by Boss Man »

It's not confusing Bonnie. You have two ways of achieving something. Moderation coupled with a modicum of sensibility relating to higher GI Carbs, and the other way, which is a semi-Ketogenic form, where about 2/3 of all meals, are practically zero Carb.

The first way is capable of helping you to lose Fat, by helping redefine the bodies attitude, to a sustained daily Carb intake.

Plus it mostly allows you to keep Macronutrient ratios around the same, pretty much all day long, as you'd be altering the way you eat Carbs, not how many, (providing you felt your intake was normal not excessive). This would make the body have to adapt in some way, to a slightly modified eating style, then allowing the body to potentially get into a comfortable digestive rhythm. A bit like going to a new place of work, where you are given a set purpose and a set way of working, (I.E. Bricklaying), so you can become more productive, because you understand what you're doing and why you're doing it, making you more likely to improve at doing it, with experience.

This is the case, when the body must adapt to anything new or different, like weightlifting, or taking Chronic illness meds, reducing Salt, Sugar, Caffeine etc etc. Confusing for the body to start with, but soon enough, something the body can better interpret and deal with more efficiently.

The second way can promote Fat loss, providing you increase the Carb calories you dropped, using the other Macronutrient sources, so you shuffle the ratios around whilst maintaining, otherwise, you could promote more Fat retention, if you simply just cut some calories, in relation to a normal intake that is.

This method would sometimes promote energy deficeits, that Fat could fulfill. So this gives this methodology, a large dose of merit.

This could however cause metabolic confusion on a daily basis. In relation to the previous analogy, it's like having a job where no two days are the same, like say a Personal Assistant for example. For some challenging, for others difficult to deal with and possibly problematic, depending on the persons comfort zone and ability to adapt.

The body in the second instance is given some Carbs, then within hours, presented with a significantly different ratio of Macros, where you virtually cut Carbs altogether and increase one or both of the remaining Macros. Then when the body is just settling into that pattern of eating, for two to four meals, the higher Carb methodology is brought temporarily into play, for one meal, confusing the body yet again.

Some would argue this idea, prevents the body getting used to something, which might promote familiarity and reduced effects. A worthy point indeed, which I can understand and can't outright deny, but whilst I may hold store with this line of thinking, in relation to stuff like Swimming, steady state Cardio, etc etc, I personally believe, having a pretty identical way of fueling the body, meal by meal, for many, promotes good regulation of the bodies complex digestive processes, improving Metabolic function and efficiency, which for those who have bodies, that are more able to promote weight gain and Fat loss issues, having an eating pattern that potentially promotes good adaptation and improved Metabolic efficiency, to me makes for a better way of coping with digestive requirements, rather than settling for a system that confuses the body, making it hard for it to get into a rhythm, and perhaps promoting less effective nutrient processing, post-consumption.

As I say, for daily Carb intakes that are not considered excessive, reshuffling of Carb types, not amounts, should be fine, so you only alter the impact of Carbs, but maintain a status quo with Fats and Proteins, so the body may only need roughly upto a week, to readjust it's handling of the shuffled Carb intake.

Having a semi-ketogenic style as in example two, is something I personally don't believe in, for anything other than competition diets, where it's a must, but as it's not in mind, even close to being unhealthy, certainly for very short periods like 3-4 weeks, I would never condemn it, as I have pointed out what I see as it's merits.

In this instance, you are being offered two alternatives, which in mind have their own merits, but it's your choice as to which is most comfortable to try and stick with. You could try one of them, and conclude it's not working, or it is, in which case maintain it or change it for the other.

Hopefully I've clarified things more for you.
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Re: Carbs

Post by Bonnie »

Actually it was another article I read that confused me, not you :) Today I spent awhile with magnifying glass & some grocery store shelves of food, the only label today that I looked at that had not one carb in it was lean ground chicken, gosh carbs r in most everything, sugar, lunch meat, yoghurt, etc.So I picked what I though to be the lowest amounts.Lately, Ive fallen back into the old habits of eating breaky, lunch & dinner & nothin in btwn, so carbs didnt increase per say, but snacks ceased, so I picked up some low fat sourcream & dip seasoning, veggies ( peppers, broccoli, carrots ) low carb yoghurt, some nuts ( almonds & hazlenuts ) didnt check on how fatty hazlenuts r before I left home tho.. so I think since I can now pull off jeans that used to be tight, without undoing them :shock: Obviously the fat is disappearing somewhere ?..Ill stick to the balanced approach & refocus on the frequent eating vs only the meals & no snack approach.Yes thanks for the info on mixing the carbs ( higher & lower GI ) Will see how this works out, who knows about down the road, thanks again boss man & swanso :)
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Re: Carbs

Post by cassiegose »

swanso5 wrote:meat and fish oil really for 28 days, no fun at all but 28 days of this will let me do what i want for the next 12 months
Oh man I'm so glad i'm not in your shoes swanso. Thats going to suck. You are doing veggies though aren't you? If not I hope you plan on doing a fiber supplement! 4 weeks with no veggies= extreme constipation. :shock:
swanso5 wrote:cassie did it for 12 weeks or something though..this is simply 4 weeks with a small amount of carbs
Actually I was dieting for 28 weeks.... For 22 of them I cycled carbs and at 18 weeks out diet got VERY STRICT. Looking back i now understand why they don't recommend doing the bodybuilding diet for longer than 16 weeks... any more than that and you start to lose it. ;)
Bonnie wrote:So meat & fish oil for 28 days ?..I recall cassie getting downright well, for lack of a better term " nuts " without carbs, no offense dear cassie Lemme see about cutting them in half, then if that doesnt shed enough fat, I'll take the next step
LOL!!! None taken. I was going nuts on that diet! I'm so glad to be done for a while!

Bonnie I had pretty good luck with carb cycling, where you have a low carb day, medium carb day, and high carb day. I played with this alot on diet to figure out what worked for me. You could try a simple cycle such as low, medium, high, low medium, high, low, medium, high... then after a while you could switch it up to something like low, medium, medium, low, medium, high, low, medium, medium, low, medium, high. I'm not sure how many carbs you're taking in right now but you could try something like 50 grams on the low days, 100 on the medium days and 100-200 on the high days. Cycling carbs like this is a little easier than restricting them all together. Plus, this helps with workouts as you can plan your hard days in the gym around your higher carb days. If you restrict carbs too much your workouts will most likely suffer... mine did anyways.

In answer to your question about what to eat if you can't have things like bread, rice, potato... I did LOTS of salads, green beans, asparagus, celery, brocolli, green peppers. A low day for me would be something like this:

Meal 1: oatmeal, eggwhites
Meal 2: lean protein, veggies
Meal 3: lean protein, veggies
Meal 4: lean protein, veggies,
Meal 5: large salad with lean protein
Meal 6: lean protein, veggies

A medium day for me would look something like:
Meal 1: oatmeal, eggwhites, a few blueberries
Meal 2: lean protein, veggies,
Meal 3: oatmeal, eggwhites (other options here would be sweet potatoe, brown rice, kamute, barely, millet, bulgar, quinoa and lean protein)
Meal 4: lean protein, veggies
Meal 5: lean protein, starchy complex carb, veggies
Meal 6: lean protein, veggies

A high day would be something like this:
Meal 1: oatmeal, eggwhites, blueberries
Meal 2: lean protein, fruit
Meal 3: lean protein, complex carb, veggies
Meal 4: lean protein, complex carb, veggies
Meal 5: lean protein, complex carb, veggies
Meal 6: lean protein , veggies

diet was pretty extreme so i was supplementing with omega 3, 6, 9 pills. You could add healthy fats in as you probably don't need to be as extreme. Also, i'm not sure what youre diet looks like now so that might be a bit too extreme to start you on. Really I just wanted to show an example of low, medium, and high days.

Hope this helps.

Cassie
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Boss Man
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Re: Carbs

Post by Boss Man »

Bonnie wrote:Actually it was another article I read that confused me, not you :)
I responded to an earlier post you did, that started thusly.
Bonnie wrote:Well that is a bit confusing, boss man says with every meal & swanso says @ breakfast & after weights
So I'm wondering if I'm confused now, or you accidentally referred to the wrong thing in your post, when stating your confusion. Hopefully this situation doesn't have the both of us going insane :wink:
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