Arginine/Citrulline Longterm Safety

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sgupta
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Arginine/Citrulline Longterm Safety

Post by sgupta »

Hey all,

So among other things I take (multivitamin, fish oil, garlic, cayenne, and a few other supplements), I take Arginine (1750 mg) and Citrulline (1500mg) daily to help general exercise performance and also assist with blood pressure (as well as other benefits like vitality). It's also "instead of aspirin" for its blood thinning properties along with the other herbs. I've taken it for several years in varying dosages and generally have tolerated it well.

Though most articles seem to tout the benefits, I recently read that Nitric Oxide overproduction can actually be harmful. In particular, I'm concerned over whether long-term supplementation could lead to anything serious like neurodegenerative diseases (ALS, for example) as Nitric Oxide seems to play a role (hyper excitability of neurons from what I've gathered). Thoughts? In this dosage, do I have anything to be concerned about?

Thanks much!
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Boss Man
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Re: Arginine/Citrulline Longterm Safety

Post by Boss Man »

I've not heard anything abotu overproduction of nitric oxide being harmful, do you have any supoorting websites or anything like that that might provide soem clarification on the matter at all?

:).
sgupta
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Re: Arginine/Citrulline Longterm Safety

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Please excuse the link to another forum and the poor format - unfortunately, I can't find an original source for this, though it seems to be well-argued and footnoted.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=442448" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bit more readable version of the same thing:
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/archive/ ... 59986.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I found it by researching the various supplements I take for safety (as I hadn't in a while, and even though these are older, never happened up on them before).

Most articles about arginine and NO-supplements seem fairly positive, but this did alarm me.

I'm a little afraid of what cutting back might do to blood pressure, but I guess the only way to know is try and see. (That would take me down to 250mg of arginine a day, and that's it, as that's what's in blood pressure supplement, and I doubt it's much of a concern at that level - the 3+ g of combined arginine and citrulline, on the other hand, might be overdoing it?).

Opinions welcome and appreciated.
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Boss Man
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Re: Arginine/Citrulline Longterm Safety

Post by Boss Man »

I wouldn't be concerned in all honesty, you're taking Arginine, but the Arginine is an NO stimulent, but it also helps with the healing of wounds and also helps with the blocking of fat into the liver I believe, so I don't see it as an issue.

NO productino cna increase vasodilation which in turn will improve bloodflow and has the potential to lower heart attack risk and issues in the brain by improveing the oxygen flow to importnet parts off the body. This also helps with exercise, as the ATP that helps to facilitate muscle contaction carries oxygen. Oxygen increase can also help stave off lactic acid production for longer, as that occurs when you utilise stored glucose, (glycogen) and have insufficient oxygen present and also VO2 max, the amount of oxygen per kilo of muscle used in 60 seconds would increase when you improve oxygen delivery to muscles, which vasodilation would do.

If you want to help your heart and arterial wellbeing, avoid caffineated products and tea, which has tannic acid, as both TA and caffeine can block Iron absorption and iron is used to create crythrocytes, (red blood cells), the haemoglobin carrying cells that carry oxygen and iron is also used ot create myoglobin that helps to store oxygen in the muscles.

Also calcification or arterial stiffening created by excess calcium in the arteries is another precursor of reduced arterial health and increased heart attack risk and it can facilitate I believe something called ventricula stiffening, which can affect the left ventrical negatively affecting bloodflow out of the aortic valve into the aorta and thne the blood pathways.

So as you only 1,200mg calcium a day, I'd go no higher than 1,500, because although Danish studies involving stool samples showed high calcium, certainly from dairy sources, allowed for more fat excretion and therefore improve weight loss potential, it wouldn't benefit your circumstances and I seem to recall the amounts consumed to help prove this was 2,000mg a day, which is 66.66% higher than the RDA.

You might benefit from taking vit c as well, as one function of vit c, is to boost iron, as does capcicum and amino acids, plus vit c helps produce collagen for skin, teeth and bones and boosts the immune system.

If you do, you might want to consider either 500mg 1-2x a day, or 1g 1-2 times a day, so last thing at night and / or first thing in the morning and you could try buffered c, as it's meant to be a little gentler on the gut for those who find regular c a bit harsh.
sgupta
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Re: Arginine/Citrulline Longterm Safety

Post by sgupta »

Thanks for the detailed reply, Boss Man!

Yes I've read a lot positive about arginine. I just don't know if those amounts (3g combined arginine + citrulline) could pose a problem since they haven't been studied longterm that I know of, but you have really good points about vasodilation, and I think in case vasodilation is probably a good thing. I'm still on 250mg arginine only and may resume the higher dose - I kind of do want to see what affect not taking it has on BP (and workout performance, vitality, etc.) to see how much is attributable to arginine versus other factors (like the garlic and cayenne I recently added, which I'm a bit more comfy with since they're essentially whole foods in tablet form). In the meantime I'm also making sure to have a few nuts each day, etc., and I do eat meat, so I should be getting some dietary arginine as well.

I do avoid too much caffeine, but I wasn't aware of the tannic acid component of tea. I generally have a single cup of coffee a day, and sometimes (not every day) some tea (usually decaffeinated, though that wouldn't solve the tannin problem). I enjoy both, so I'll probably simply limit consumption, but that's all good to know.

Aside from the calcium in multivitamin, I don't take extra, apart from the foods I eat (drinking milk occasionally, etc.). I do get a little bit extra vitamin C than multivitamin (from a dry eye supplement I also take with a bit extra fish oil and flaxseed oil as well).
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