Supplements - How To Use

A forum for anything related to nutritional supplementation including advice and reviews.

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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by Boss Man »

Lactose is a double edged sword for Protein powders.

On the one hand, the Sugars would assist with Insulin spiking, thus assisting with Protein synthesis into muscles.

On the other hand, it would require Lactase to break it down, increasing Digestive Enzyme production and possibly slowing down the digestion rate, but owing to the effects on Insulin, possibly a good thing, when the nutrition is ready for synthesising.

Though potentially giving you no real advnatage over not having it at all. Plus the inceased enzymatic production, would increase Metabolic and Hypothalamic responses, working the Endocrine system harder.

Whether this would induce more GH production, owing to the Fact the Pituitary also governs Thyroid activity, to some extent, I could not say.
harsha1980
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Supplements - pre and post workout

Post by harsha1980 »

Hi,
I have been doing resistance training for about 8 months now and am not sure of the timing of the supplements.i.e pre and post workouts .I usually have 1scoop of whey protein isolate with 6 oz milk and wheat bread with peanut butter pre workout and post work out I usually have 2scoops of whey protein with banana and milk.Is it required to take creatine and glutamine pre and post workout?? Will I lose the muscle mass if I stop taking these supplements??

Any advice? :?
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by Boss Man »

Creatine can be take

A: Pre workout.

B: Post-workout.

C: Split dose 2-3g Pre, 2-3g post.

D: protein I believe is better after workouts, just because it's a growth and repair supplement, and I don't think it will do that as effectively as it should, when you're breaking muscle down during workouts. The training to me then becomes counterproductive to the nature of the product.

One upside being that the Arginine content in Protein, would stimulate some NO production, which would promote more Bloodflow to muscles, but Arginine is not that potent except in something like a Ketaglutarate form. Some powders contain it, some don't.

However I favour afterwards rather than before.

Glutamine can be had before or after, but I found from experience afterwards is better as it synthesises Protein, so as per comments above, after would be the better choice from perspective.
harsha1980
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by harsha1980 »

Thanks!
Parraeels4ever
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by Parraeels4ever »

Effective use of supplements.

I am currently taking a whey protein post workout. At point of purchase I was told to take before going to bed & then post workout. I was not real comfortable with taking before bed, so I have only ever really taken it post workout.

I feel that I am in a rut at the moment and not making progress. I am working arse off & not seeing the benefits. Main reason would be insufficient diet, but also I think I am doing too much cardio, which is being counterproductive to gaining muscle bulk. I plan to reduce cardio & get better at diet, so this leaves the question of supplements.

Is there one magic supplement that you can take pre & post workout that provides - Creatine, Whey & Glutamine??. Do you need all three? Do you need only two or one? I have absolutely no idea. Up until 4 months ago, I had never taken anything. I have since taken whey powder as described above. Actually to be truthful, until a month or so ago, I had never herd of Glutamine & Creatine. To say I am a newbie is an understatement.

Do I need to introduce - Creatine & Glutamine?

I don't want to take these just for fun. As I said I am busting arse & I am looking for the results.

Regards
Andy
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by cassiegose »

Hi there,

If your diet isn't on track then you will most likely not be seeing results. Get that diet on track before you even worry about the supplements. In opinion, diet is about 65% of the equation, training is about 30% and supplements are about 5%. I'm a big fan of creatine and BCAA's and am currently taking both while I prepare for some upcoming bodybuilding shows. HOWEVER I only introduced the creatine into diet AFTER getting training and diet on track.

If youre wanting to put on muscle you MUST be eating the right amount of the right kind of calories. Muscle requires protein to grow. If you're not eating enough don't expect to build too much muscle. Also if youre doing boat loads of cardio that will also be counter productive.

Honestly if I were you I wouldn't waste time or money on too many supplements at this point. Focus on diet and get that training program in line. Once youre on track there and youre in a good routine lets look at some supplements. Whey protein is good. Keep taking that post workout. You don't need to take it before bed, eating solid protein before bed is sufficient.

If you need help with your diet post what youre currently doing or what you plan on doing so suggestions can be made.

Good luck!

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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by Parraeels4ever »

Thanks cassie
I appreciate the % splits. This rams home even more so, where I need to focus attention.

I will get a few things in order then come back with a few questions

Thanks again

Andy
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by Boss Man »

All-in ones aren't really worth it. The culprit is the Creatine.

Some people like to take Glutamine after workouts and before bed as a 5g or 10g dose, which all-in ones don't allow, though some do a 15g a day strategy and add the other 5g with Breakfast. Creatine in them means this could result in too much Creatine a day.

Some people take Protein after workouts, before bed and sometimes a scoop or half with Breakfast.

Creatine messes this up by creating a too much scenario.

Some people take 2-3g Creatine before workouts and 2-3g afterwards. This doesn't work with all-in ones, as you get a split Protein dose, which means you might not get as much as you want after workouts, unless you have the half dose before and the full dose after, meaning you're having a dose and a half of Creatine within a 45-90 minute period, which could be too much.

If you load up on Creatine for 5-7 days, all-in ones mean you'd be getting 1-2 meals a day of solid food, and 4 liquid meals, so you get 5-7 days of very low Micronutrient levels, unless you took Multi-vits to compensate, which is not a very good contingency plan and some Multi-vits don't digest too well anyway.

The otherr problem is that Creatine needs cycling, which means even if you go for a small one like 3 weeks on 1 off, using an all-in one product, you'd have to use a Protein powder with no Creatine in it, for a week, as backup.

All-in ones tend to have smaller lesser ingredients in like Chromium, (Blood Glucose regulator), ZMA, (Ziinc Magnesium), HMB, (Beta-hydroxy Beta Methyl Butyrate), a Protein synthesiser.

They claim all-in ones are cheaper than buying ingredients seperately, which is true, but realistically, most people don't buy Protein supplements, for the HMB content or little added exrtas, they buy it for the more solid ingredients, Protein, Glutamine and maybe Creatine.

Get large amounts of the big three and chances are price wise, compared to all-in ones, the price would be similar or maybe a little more, but you get more flexibility.

A good Protein powder can have Carbs and can have boosted Glutamine content and boosted BCAA content, (Leucine, Isoleucine and Valine), the essential anabolic Amino Acids. Some might have Ketaglutarate form of Arginine, which is supposedly better than regular Arginine.

Protein powder in the past suddenly got some added Creatine in it, which I wasn't happy about, but when I realised how depending on circumstances / day of the week, I take none, around 3/4 of a dose, or sometimes a little bit, to kickstart the recovery process, if I'm intending to go home and eat, I'm not consuming enough Creatine in a week, to have any lasting effects.

So basically I reccomend not using an all-in one for the future, just avoid it.

Creatine will work better almost certainly for big bulky guys, then people who've been training <1-2 years. I know from experience and at the time, being less seasoned in supplement understanding, that Creatine isn't worth it, for guys that don't carry much additional bulk.

Forget some stupid magazine ad, of some snarling, ripped, 230lb Juicer, telling you he got 50-60lbs of additional Bench Press using crappy Celltech, (debateable if 10g Creatine at once is healthy), because some 150lb 5ft 6 inch, 18 year old, who's been lifting 6 months and used to weigh 145lbs, would not get that much Bench press increase off any Creatine product. Chances are they'd be lucky to even get 3 more reps.
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by TaffyTkd »

Hello Everybody,

I am hoping you can all help me, i am new to weight training but as i have just lost 3 stone (42 lbs) and at 150 lbs i need to firm/tone up and maybe bulk back up a bit to 155/160.

I have searched the internet and looked at hundereds of sites but i am getting confused, so i have couple of questions.

1, Can any recommend a lifting routine and possibly some exercises there are some many, i was planning on doing Mon Wed Fri weights and Tue Thurs Cardio.

2, i have bought some whey protein, creatine monohydrate and L glutamine, Can i take this all mixed together and i was going to take it post workout, and only 1 shake a day or should i take 2?

3, also should i only take it on weight days or also cardio days, also i do 19 hours a week of Martial Arts would the supplements help me or hinder me.

I apologise if this is a bit long winded but i really could do with some advice.

Thanks in advance and i appreciate your time
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by Boss Man »

TaffyTkd wrote: 1, Can any recommend a lifting routine and possibly some exercises there are some many, i was planning on doing Mon Wed Fri weights and Tue Thurs Cardio.

(I'd go with a basic routine you can intially stick to easily. So things like Squats, Lunges, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Bent Over Barbell Rows, Shoulder Press, E-Z Bar Curls and Tricep Press. 2 sets of each, 8-10 reps per set, then 1 minute of Planks for the front Core.

You can then experiment with fancier exercises and more volume / intensity after a few weeks, when you've gotten used to the routine and properly performing the Biomechanics of the exercises.

As for Cardio you only need something like Interval training 2 times a week for 30 minutes a time.

I wouldn't do what you suggested schedule wise, as you'll have 5 days straight, the two days of nothing. So I suggest you move the Thursday Cardio to Friday and the Friday weights to Saturday, so effectively Mon - W. Tue - C. Wed - W. Thu - n/a. Fri - C. Sat - W. Sun n/a.)

2, i have bought some whey protein, creatine monohydrate and L glutamine, Can i take this all mixed together and i was going to take it post workout, and only 1 shake a day or should i take 2?

(Protein shakes are good after workouts. Some take them at night for anti-catabolic reasons and half a scoop can be good for boosting protein intake at Breakfast. I'd focus mainly on the post-workout one though.

If it's got Carbs in then all the better, as the Insulin spike will help with Protein synthesis. If not you can add Crushed Oats in there. If you have any taste issues, then things like a bit of Honey, Vanilla Essence, gound Ginger, ground Nutmeg and Cinnamon might help.

Don't mix shakes with Milk as Milk increases Casein content, viscocity, calories and Enzyme production, as you'd need a Lactase enzyme to breakdown the Galactose part of the Lactose Discaccharide, all of which could slow down absorption.

The Lactose could assist an Insulin spike, but it's a small payoff that doesn't stack up compared to the cons I just mentioned above.

Glutamine is sometimes boosted in a powder anyway, with the BCAA's, Leucine, Valine and Isoleucine, the anabolic essential Amino Acids, so more isn't necessarily required, but you could add a half to one teaspoon in there in there, or use it at night instead.

Creatine isn't worth it in opinion, becasue with your size it would provide mediocre results for sure. However it is I believe worthwhile for more solidly built people, with added strength and power, but you may get poor results with your initial condition.)


3, also should i only take it on weight days or also cardio days, also i do 19 hours a week of Martial Arts would the supplements help me or hinder me.

(No the supplements wouldn't hinder you. Yes take a supplement after all workouts.)

I apologise if this is a bit long winded but i really could do with some advice.

Thanks in advance and i appreciate your time
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by TaffyTkd »

Hi,

Cheers Boss and thanks for the advice, but the exercises you suggest should i do them all in one day ir split them into sections?

i ave bought Myprotein brand and it has 1.8g carbs per 30g.

Once again thanks
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by Boss Man »

All in one session.

You're doing 8 exercises with 2 sets, so 16 sets in total, plus the minute of planks, so it shouldn't take long to get that done. Around 40 minutes max touchwood. Then you should have no problem mastering technique and getting used to consistently doing it.
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by TaffyTkd »

Thanks Boss,

i will give it go and get back to you.

i got given some USN muscle fuel, is that thesame type of thing as whey protien.

this has bcaa and glutamine mixed in it.

Cheers once a again.
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by Boss Man »

It is, but they seem to do different types of Muscle Fuel product. Is yours STS, Mass or Dynamic?
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Re: Supplements - How To Use

Post by ironwill »

Boss, curious at what point you think I might benefit from Glutamine, and/or Creatine? Or would I be wasting $$. Thanks for any input.
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