I'm trying to keep carbs to no more than 100 grams per day but am finding it very difficult.
If I have two protein shakes per day with 3 cups of fat free milk (1.5 cups each shake) that provides 52 grams of carbs just from protein shakes.
That leaves me a balance of 48 grams of carbs in foods. By the time I add in the protein mix, some chicken, veggies, and legumes I exceed goal of 100 grams quickly.
Any advice, suggestions, or helpful info would be appreciated.
13 grams of carbs from fat free milk?
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Craig98203
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Dev_Crimson
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take the protine shakes to maybe only one scoop an only half an hour after work out u dont really want ur protine from foods after ur work out because it will sit in ur stomach to long u want quick digesting protin after ur work out so ur body can use more if not all of it right away. that said switch ur prtine other then after working out to fish an turkey an such that way ur still getting ur protine u need to build ur muscel but with out the carbs an fat(even if its healthy fats) also try an appel with ur shakes they did a study in japan an it showed the phospher-something haha helped burn fat. stick to green tea an water tho milk is ok but most times fat free milk is processed an thats never good. u can also try youtube for a man named dadin steens i think (www.fatlosslifestyle.com)
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Craig98203
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Yep.
Protein shakes with Milk, will increase Casein, Calories, and enzyme production, slowing shakes down.
Only good thing is the Lactose would spike the Insulin, to help get more Protein to muscles.
If you wanted added Carbs, go for things like Crushed Oats, Honey, or powder with Carbs in it already as examples.
Good Carb sources in powders are things like Maltodextrin, Palatinose Waxy Maize Starch, Glucomannan etc etc.
Protein shakes with Milk, will increase Casein, Calories, and enzyme production, slowing shakes down.
Only good thing is the Lactose would spike the Insulin, to help get more Protein to muscles.
If you wanted added Carbs, go for things like Crushed Oats, Honey, or powder with Carbs in it already as examples.
Good Carb sources in powders are things like Maltodextrin, Palatinose Waxy Maize Starch, Glucomannan etc etc.
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Craig98203
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Craig, I respectfully disagree with Katiesuarez. I read your profile and you should absolutely factor in all "NET" carbs. While I agree with her asessment of carbs on veggies with respect to insulin levels (only in part), I would say count each net carb in a high nutrition veggie carb as part of your allotment for that meal. I don't think you should be exceeding 25-30 net carbs, generally, each meal for 6 to 7 meals a day. So for example, if you are taking in 4 servings of broccoli with a meal (which isnt that much food), just because each servings only has 2 net carbs, you should factor in counting 8 net carbs on top of whatever the other carb/fat/protein you have with your broccoli during that meal.
You are trying to lose weight or at least restructure your weight. Why wouldn't you factor in net carbs regardless of what source it is, generally. You are trying to do this from a practical-use standpoint, and you can't afford to take the approach that katie is suggesting (again, in opinion).
Additionally, in opinion, you should nix the fruit OR, to clarify, if you DO eat fruit with a meal, keep it to one or two meals MAX out of the 6-7 meals you should be taking in each day. And yes, rasberries, blackberries, and strawberries are excellent---but NOT blueberries. It would only take 1/4 of a full serving of blueberries to exceed your sugar of eating a whole serving of rasberries or strawberries, generally. yes blueberries have a lot of antioxidants, but the sugar swap there isn't in your best interest as a general rule. Just one serving is 52 grams of sugar! Maybe a handful after your workout with your protein shake is fine or some scattered in your beakfast--- but nix it otherwise.
Keep your high nutrition/low carb foods with your 25-30 net carb general rule with your protein/fat inclusion each meal with your moderate excercise program and you will start seeing those lbs creep off steadily. Keep at it Craig. And keep asking questions if your unsure!
You are trying to lose weight or at least restructure your weight. Why wouldn't you factor in net carbs regardless of what source it is, generally. You are trying to do this from a practical-use standpoint, and you can't afford to take the approach that katie is suggesting (again, in opinion).
Additionally, in opinion, you should nix the fruit OR, to clarify, if you DO eat fruit with a meal, keep it to one or two meals MAX out of the 6-7 meals you should be taking in each day. And yes, rasberries, blackberries, and strawberries are excellent---but NOT blueberries. It would only take 1/4 of a full serving of blueberries to exceed your sugar of eating a whole serving of rasberries or strawberries, generally. yes blueberries have a lot of antioxidants, but the sugar swap there isn't in your best interest as a general rule. Just one serving is 52 grams of sugar! Maybe a handful after your workout with your protein shake is fine or some scattered in your beakfast--- but nix it otherwise.
Keep your high nutrition/low carb foods with your 25-30 net carb general rule with your protein/fat inclusion each meal with your moderate excercise program and you will start seeing those lbs creep off steadily. Keep at it Craig. And keep asking questions if your unsure!
Craig, respectful disagreement between katie and myself is hopefully keeping you reading instead of being a distraction. In the long run its banter like this that will help you, not hurt. I wanted to make sure i commented on some of katies comments for your benefit.
<<<<While it is important to keep carbs in check during fat loss counting down to the last gram can be maddening. Unless someone is prepping for a show, I don’t think one needs to be so stringent with every detail>>>>
You are agreeing that carbs need to be kept in check. Good. But I take exception to "unless someone is prepping for a show". I read Craig's goals and profile, and all you need to read is Craig's "About Me" to know that giving him the right information is paramount to anyone on this site "preparing for a show". Consequently, Craig's goals will always be more important for people in the know to give him the "exact" tools he needs to get back in shape on the quickest, most lasting path possible. So accounting for those 11 grams of sugar in his broccoli you spoke about definitely need to be accounted for each meal sitting, not "throughout the day". If he eats 3/4 of that bag (which we all know for a guy is nothing) with his protein and fat, if he follows your advice to ignore the carb he takes in from the broccoli and in turn thinks he can eat a baked potato or a serving of rice, or a can of black beans or a full serving of quinoa (just throwing out spectrum of examples, good and bad carbs here) his total carbs will exceed the ceiling Craig needs to stay under to not store some of those "extra carbs" as fat.
<<<<<I also think that people should not concern themselves with counting calories or macros unless they have specific goals that require sub-normal body fat percentages. >>>>>
I couldnt agree more with katie, we are on the same page here. If you are eating high nutrition/low carb foods, you will by definition have a low calorie diet that doesnt require you to count calories. But if you don't count carbs for each 2.5-3 hour window and goes over his carb ceiling on and off, Craig will not be seeing those abs, another one of his specific, stated goals.
<<<<<As for the blueberries, they are an amazing power food.>>>>>
Totally agree. But lets help Craig out here--- I never said "one pound" in text. All 4 fruits you mentioned are as follows for true "NET carb"(sugar) impact: Rasberries (1 cup = 6g), Blackberries (1 cup = 6g), Strawberries (1 cup = 8g), and lastly blueberries (18 g). Now if I am Craig, i only eat blueberries after a workout with whey protein. But lets face it, because 1 cup isnt going to "fill him up", during any other non-post workout meal he eats, if, say he incorporated rasb, blackb, or strawb in his breakfast, he still has room for more carb alltoment, instead of eating like a squirrel. At Craig's height, weight, and age he should be taking in between 2500-2700 calories a day with 30-40min intense core workouts (not that much time!) just 3-4 times a week. His TDEE should be met from his protein and healthy fats without concern to calories but he MUST COUNT HIS "NET" CARBS EACH MEAL and get into the habit of keeping it under a certain ceiling. I say start off at 25-27 NET carbs each meal, 6 times a day, and ONLY if he notices his energy levels are significantly down, THEN and only then increase it to 32-35 per meal, all from fibrous veggies and legumes (limit legumes). He follows this and he loses 1-2 pounds every week, minimum, and starts to see his abs after 16 weeks. If he doesnt count his total net carb allotment for each sitting, he might get frustrated and think he is "genetically predisposed" to it and loses faith, which we all know Craig can do this.
<<<<While it is important to keep carbs in check during fat loss counting down to the last gram can be maddening. Unless someone is prepping for a show, I don’t think one needs to be so stringent with every detail>>>>
You are agreeing that carbs need to be kept in check. Good. But I take exception to "unless someone is prepping for a show". I read Craig's goals and profile, and all you need to read is Craig's "About Me" to know that giving him the right information is paramount to anyone on this site "preparing for a show". Consequently, Craig's goals will always be more important for people in the know to give him the "exact" tools he needs to get back in shape on the quickest, most lasting path possible. So accounting for those 11 grams of sugar in his broccoli you spoke about definitely need to be accounted for each meal sitting, not "throughout the day". If he eats 3/4 of that bag (which we all know for a guy is nothing) with his protein and fat, if he follows your advice to ignore the carb he takes in from the broccoli and in turn thinks he can eat a baked potato or a serving of rice, or a can of black beans or a full serving of quinoa (just throwing out spectrum of examples, good and bad carbs here) his total carbs will exceed the ceiling Craig needs to stay under to not store some of those "extra carbs" as fat.
<<<<<I also think that people should not concern themselves with counting calories or macros unless they have specific goals that require sub-normal body fat percentages. >>>>>
I couldnt agree more with katie, we are on the same page here. If you are eating high nutrition/low carb foods, you will by definition have a low calorie diet that doesnt require you to count calories. But if you don't count carbs for each 2.5-3 hour window and goes over his carb ceiling on and off, Craig will not be seeing those abs, another one of his specific, stated goals.
<<<<<As for the blueberries, they are an amazing power food.>>>>>
Totally agree. But lets help Craig out here--- I never said "one pound" in text. All 4 fruits you mentioned are as follows for true "NET carb"(sugar) impact: Rasberries (1 cup = 6g), Blackberries (1 cup = 6g), Strawberries (1 cup = 8g), and lastly blueberries (18 g). Now if I am Craig, i only eat blueberries after a workout with whey protein. But lets face it, because 1 cup isnt going to "fill him up", during any other non-post workout meal he eats, if, say he incorporated rasb, blackb, or strawb in his breakfast, he still has room for more carb alltoment, instead of eating like a squirrel. At Craig's height, weight, and age he should be taking in between 2500-2700 calories a day with 30-40min intense core workouts (not that much time!) just 3-4 times a week. His TDEE should be met from his protein and healthy fats without concern to calories but he MUST COUNT HIS "NET" CARBS EACH MEAL and get into the habit of keeping it under a certain ceiling. I say start off at 25-27 NET carbs each meal, 6 times a day, and ONLY if he notices his energy levels are significantly down, THEN and only then increase it to 32-35 per meal, all from fibrous veggies and legumes (limit legumes). He follows this and he loses 1-2 pounds every week, minimum, and starts to see his abs after 16 weeks. If he doesnt count his total net carb allotment for each sitting, he might get frustrated and think he is "genetically predisposed" to it and loses faith, which we all know Craig can do this.
I simply mean that the goal on Craig's "About Me" is paramount to anyone training for a contest. It is "the" very reason why there should be a strict level of discipline on how many (the sum of all foods during each particular meal) NET carbs he intakes each sitting. Again, in opinion. I do recognize we don't agree on this one and definitely respect your opinion. And you mentioned the KISS system, we are both on the same page. But counting his net carbs is the one thing he can do to ensure his level of consistency with carbs enables him not only to reach his goal, but get used to counting how many net carbs are actually in all the foods he is taking into his body. We both know that, down the road, after he has become a "food expert" from doing this, it will be in part because of his strict adherance to his carb ceiling. Likewise, if he ever feels like his workouts arent as productive as they used to be, he will be able to increase his carbs each meal to adjust to his TDEE requirements as he gains more muscle and his workouts get more intense. THAT, to me, is how he graduates into the "super KISS" system, if you will. And I brought up "random" carbs in last post as an example, (good and bad carbs), which is why i used opposites like potatoes/quinoa. One I would never eat, the other i eat after workouts (yep, quinoa---just like you 
and the blueberries thing we will just have to disagree on... we both agree they are a great super food, definitely). And not sure why you are quibbling over 1/4 pound vs 1 pound. NONE of messages mentioned anything about "pound", partial or full. 1/4 pound of blueberries or 1 pound is still a lot of blueberries!
You'll have to forgive me. I only assume PW meal is "post workout". I happen to believe those carbs you mentioned are great for BOTH morning and PW meal, not just PW meal, but i do agree to limit to one serving each time.
In line with your kiss system, i think we should give guys like Craig the ability to be filled up "as much as possible", when possible. Satiety will not be "as big" a desire of craig's once he, like you say, is on board with the diet and starts seeing results, but i say try and give them a meal plan which attempts to look as "filling as possible" without sacrificing good, sound nutrition to ease them into the great eating habits that both you and I possess.
I am however intrigued by your comment that sugary fruit does not go to the muscles. I will say I disagree, but you also inspire me to verify this because their are two schools of thought on natural sugar from fruit actually helping recovery in the muscles. Are you saying "none" of the sugar helps with recovery. Thanks in advance for your response, katie.
and the blueberries thing we will just have to disagree on... we both agree they are a great super food, definitely). And not sure why you are quibbling over 1/4 pound vs 1 pound. NONE of messages mentioned anything about "pound", partial or full. 1/4 pound of blueberries or 1 pound is still a lot of blueberries!
You'll have to forgive me. I only assume PW meal is "post workout". I happen to believe those carbs you mentioned are great for BOTH morning and PW meal, not just PW meal, but i do agree to limit to one serving each time.
In line with your kiss system, i think we should give guys like Craig the ability to be filled up "as much as possible", when possible. Satiety will not be "as big" a desire of craig's once he, like you say, is on board with the diet and starts seeing results, but i say try and give them a meal plan which attempts to look as "filling as possible" without sacrificing good, sound nutrition to ease them into the great eating habits that both you and I possess.
I am however intrigued by your comment that sugary fruit does not go to the muscles. I will say I disagree, but you also inspire me to verify this because their are two schools of thought on natural sugar from fruit actually helping recovery in the muscles. Are you saying "none" of the sugar helps with recovery. Thanks in advance for your response, katie.
if im understanding your logic right on the dextrose malto argument, i would think someone like craig who still needs to worry about fat storage doesnt want a HUGE insulin spike, just a spike. what if he were to mix a small dose of dextrose, with medium sized malto and smal fructose. This way, insulin spike will remain and protein carb combo would defeat what cortisol and low insulin would be doing at the time his workout is over. Am I right? This stuff is interesting.
p.s.- you did say the word "pound". ha ha. :p I promise I love you, katie! but seriously, would love to hear your comments (any anyone elses like boss man/swanso) on the Post workout dextrose/malto/sucrose debate. i mostly only work with people who are overweight, so im leary of helping people, many of which have diabetes in their family history to take something that will create such a spike as to ultimately work against fat loss. i hope i get a lot of replies on this one.
p.s.- you did say the word "pound". ha ha. :p I promise I love you, katie!
but seriously, would love to hear your comments (any anyone elses like boss man/swanso) on the Post workout dextrose/malto/sucrose debate. i mostly only work with people who are overweight, so im leary of helping people, many of which have diabetes in their family history to take something that will create such a spike as to ultimately work against fat loss. i hope i get a lot of replies on this one.
Last edited by Jumanji23 on Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
i tell all clinets the following basically:
1 - fruit with 1st 2 meals
2 - solid protein with all meals (maybe excpet breakfast which i don't even do)
3 - if you're gonna have bread, pasta, rice or cerial ( big 4 when it comes to carbs) have them straight after a workout and/or for breakfast...people will eat carbs so if you limit their spillover times then mostly you'll be fine
4 - i don't really give portion sizes for these but i do tell clinets to ëat up a storm" after training
5 - 30g of sugar ofter training is no where near what i'd prescribe...if we've trained them proper; then all cal's from the 2 meals after training will go towards replenshment
6 - all other meals have veggies/salad
7 - don't count cal's
1 - fruit with 1st 2 meals
2 - solid protein with all meals (maybe excpet breakfast which i don't even do)
3 - if you're gonna have bread, pasta, rice or cerial ( big 4 when it comes to carbs) have them straight after a workout and/or for breakfast...people will eat carbs so if you limit their spillover times then mostly you'll be fine
4 - i don't really give portion sizes for these but i do tell clinets to ëat up a storm" after training
5 - 30g of sugar ofter training is no where near what i'd prescribe...if we've trained them proper; then all cal's from the 2 meals after training will go towards replenshment
6 - all other meals have veggies/salad
7 - don't count cal's
swanso was hoping youd be more detailed about the dextrose/maltodex/sucrose post workout discussion that katie and i started. and if you could, let me know if your opinion is also the same for overly obese people. i dont want any of clients to get to their goals any sooner than "as quick as possible", and these people's insulin sensitivities probably aren't "stellar", if you know what i mean. so let me know. be detailed, i appreciate your input, as always.
don't really have an opinion i don't have any of it and don't prescribe it to any clients
i suppose point 3 was stance here...simple carbs after training and/or breakfats whether it be dextrose/maltodex/sucrose (which none of clients would even know existed), sugary cereal, rice pasta, bread etc
ecspecially after training...no matter how heavy, obese, card tolerant or resistant you are decent resistance training will, well should deplete glycogen and cause some muscle damage and either of those listed above will only be a positive on recovery...we don't really need to worry about insulin spikes at this time as it's what we want to actually happen to shuttle nutrinets into the muscles, have them recover as quick as they can so they can go again fresh as a daisy next session whenever that may be
i suppose i did have an opinion...
www.uponlinetraining.com
i suppose point 3 was stance here...simple carbs after training and/or breakfats whether it be dextrose/maltodex/sucrose (which none of clients would even know existed), sugary cereal, rice pasta, bread etc
ecspecially after training...no matter how heavy, obese, card tolerant or resistant you are decent resistance training will, well should deplete glycogen and cause some muscle damage and either of those listed above will only be a positive on recovery...we don't really need to worry about insulin spikes at this time as it's what we want to actually happen to shuttle nutrinets into the muscles, have them recover as quick as they can so they can go again fresh as a daisy next session whenever that may be
i suppose i did have an opinion...
www.uponlinetraining.com