Muscles and too much cardio

[toefa]

People often say lifting weights and cardio dont mix too well, or that the cardio lessens the ability to 'grow' muscle. So what actually happens? If i went to the gym and did a full on weights session every three days, but did cardio every morning and afternoon 5 days a week, what happens to the muscles i have worked? If it's a matter of calories burnt during cardio reducing the energy for weights, what if i up intake?

On a similar note, if i work muscles without rest what happens to them? Surely they would get stronger still, but the process where the muscle repairs and the size increases would be effected right?

Thanks

[starlet]

I'd be interested to know about this too, does anyone have any ideas?

[swanso5]

as usual it "depends"

wts are anabolic - building muscle
cardio is catabolic - wasteing muscle

of course both of these depends on your nutritional situation before, during and after both of those activities and during the day

but basically the more cardio you do the less muscle you'll build simply as the excess calories you need to grow muscle are being chewed up by your cardio workouts

the answer is not to do more wt workouts either because they aren't supported by enough calories already, let alone increasing activity even more

doing wts without rest is similar, they have no time to rest and repair so they don't

[Packard]

experience is you can mix them. The limitation is your ability to recover and the available training time. So it ends up being a compromise. Do you do 60% of your available time/recovery to lifting or do you devote it to cardio.

When I was preparing for a mountain climb emphasis was clearly on cardio; but at other times emphasis was on strength training.

You need to set goals and design the program around the goals.

If you don't have any specific goal, then "balance" is a good one. Balance your workout to equally train all your body parts and to put in an equal amount of cardio to match the lifting (20 minutes of upperbody and 20 minutes of lower body cardio is plenty for good health).

[eran112003]

you consume your energy level. in cardio you use your oxygen supply since it is related with aerobics while when you lift weight you use your ATP supply related with anaaerobic. so if you run in moderate 15 minutes, it will be the perfect thing. you may add weight after that. but if you run longer ( over 20 minutes. both you get tired and deplte you atp levels.
if you eat more than 30 g protein at the same meal it will be useless.because body can consume and use just avg. 30 gram protein.
therefore, i recommend maximum 20 minutes jog before or after your workout. get enough carbohydrats and protein.

[skully]

you consume your energy level. in cardio you use your oxygen supply since it is related with aerobics while when you lift weight you use your ATP supply related with anaaerobic. so if you run in moderate 15 minutes, it will be the perfect thing. you may add weight after that. but if you run longer ( over 20 minutes. both you get tired and deplte you atp levels.
if you eat more than 30 g protein at the same meal it will be useless.because body can consume and use just avg. 30 gram protein.
therefore, i recommend maximum 20 minutes jog before or after your workout. get enough carbohydrats and protein.

What I am curious about...does our bodies even know we're doing a "cardio" exercise? What if someone is truly an active person in nature, who does not follow exercises and has a lot of movement in their jobs/lives...a lot of walking....etc...if someone is walking for 1 hr straight at a 5km/h..how would their bodies know it's cardio or just "Walking" ....does that mean everytime you walk for long and fast ( which i do from time to time when I'm in a hurry) i'm losing fat and muscles? doesn't make sense...

[Boss Man]

The body wouldn't distinguish between things like running, jogging and walking, as the Brain wouldn't acknowledge something like walking, then have a specific plan for burning Fat, mobilising nutrients, using energy source etc etc, the body would just adapt and respond accordingly to every second you did something and the way those things stimulated you.

[swanso5]

the body has 3 basic energy systems

anaerobic - lasts for 10secs, explosive in nature, fatigues quickly, does not require the use of oxygen, produces lactic acid (the burn) - think a shot put, 100m sprint
anaerobic alactic acid system - lasts 10secs to 2 - 3mins, intermediate speed/endurance, does not require oxygen, does not build up lactic acid - think 200m running, running suicides
aerobic system - lasts for 3mins+ (for as long as you exercise), slow continous movement in nature, fatigues slowly, requires the use of oxygen - think marathon running, gym classes

these recommendations only take affect for CONTINOUS exercise...many people think because a game of soccer lasts for 90mins that it is aerobic based....it's not...players do multyiple sprints as hard as they can for the ball or with the ball but otherwise they're basically resting...it's a mix of the 1st and 2nd one with a sml amount of the 3rd

the intensity and duration of your exercise will dictate what energy system will be used

too add on to that...

exercise performed at about 70% or below your maximim intensity uses fat as it's primary energy source but will not increase metabolism
exercise performed at above 705 of your maximum intensity (closer to 85% really) will use carbs as it's primary energy source but will increase mertabolism

always go the 2nd option here

[skully]

The body wouldn't distinguish between things like running, jogging and walking, as the Brain wouldn't acknowledge something like walking, then have a specific plan for burning Fat, mobilising nutrients, using energy source etc etc, the body would just adapt and respond accordingly to every second you did something and the way those things stimulated you.

Then how come doing long hours of cardio will make you lose muscles? You body wouldn't distinguish if you're walking fast on a treadmill or because you're in a hurry...I never really understood how you can lose muscles and fat through cardio and not just fat?

the body has 3 basic energy systems

anaerobic - lasts for 10secs, explosive in nature, fatigues quickly, does not require the use of oxygen, produces lactic acid (the burn) - think a shot put, 100m sprint
anaerobic alactic acid system - lasts 10secs to 2 - 3mins, intermediate speed/endurance, does not require oxygen, does not build up lactic acid - think 200m running, running suicides
aerobic system - lasts for 3mins+ (for as long as you exercise), slow continous movement in nature, fatigues slowly, requires the use of oxygen - think marathon running, gym classes

these recommendations only take affect for CONTINOUS exercise...many people think because a game of soccer lasts for 90mins that it is aerobic based....it's not...players do multyiple sprints as hard as they can for the ball or with the ball but otherwise they're basically resting...it's a mix of the 1st and 2nd one with a sml amount of the 3rd

the intensity and duration of your exercise will dictate what energy system will be used

too add on to that...

exercise performed at about 70% or below your maximim intensity uses fat as it's primary energy source but will not increase metabolism
exercise performed at above 705 of your maximum intensity (closer to 85% really) will use carbs as it's primary energy source but will increase mertabolism

always go the 2nd option here

That's interesting information that I don't understand all-too-well.

1) How do you know your exercise is performed at 70%-85% or more of your maximum intensity?

2) If I want to lose fat, shouldn't I go for the 1st option?

Can you give me examples of these two options and what exercises are associated with them?

[swanso5]

Then how come doing long hours of cardio will make you lose muscles? You body wouldn't distinguish if you're walking fast on a treadmill or because you're in a hurry...I never really understood how you can lose muscles and fat through cardio and not just fat?

the use it or lose it principle...if you're not using your muscles then the body won't keep them..it wants to survive as easy as it can an lugging sround muscle and requiring plenty of calories isn't ist's favouritew thing to do so you have to make it do it by training heavy

1) How do you know your exercise is performed at 70%-85% or more of your maximum intensity?

guess...figure what a 10 out of 10 is (as hard as you possibly can go before passing out and drop it down slightly

) If I want to lose fat, shouldn't I go for the 1st option?

i knew you'd ask that...you burn a higher % of you the calories you burn during low intensity exercise then you do at high intensity exercise..so if you're doing easy jogging for 1hr you may burn 500cals (i'm just making these numbers up by the way) of which maybe 50% / 250 of those cals coming from fat reserves...in this situation you only burn cal's while your actually doing it so for 1hr that day

sounds great hey...

when you train as hard as you can you might burn the same amount of cals (500) in the same 1hr time frame but because the intensity is over 70% as described above, there's mroe a reliance on carbs to fuel the exercise so you might only burn 100 fat reserve cals

doesn't sound too good does it...

but wait there's more!!

because you've trained that hard you actually continue to burn cal's for up to 38hrs after you've trained and up to 9 x what you burned during the low intensity jogging session...so now you'ver burnt 4500 cal's in that 38hr span and even if you've continued burning the same % of fat cals as you sid when you exercises, it'a still 6 - 7 times more greater so you've used more cals' and more importantly, fat cals

to some up, train hard...as hard as you can...when you feel like you're taking it easy then you're gonna get no where

[skully]

Then how come doing long hours of cardio will make you lose muscles? You body wouldn't distinguish if you're walking fast on a treadmill or because you're in a hurry...I never really understood how you can lose muscles and fat through cardio and not just fat?

the use it or lose it principle...if you're not using your muscles then the body won't keep them..it wants to survive as easy as it can an lugging sround muscle and requiring plenty of calories isn't ist's favouritew thing to do so you have to make it do it by training heavy

So I'm wight lifting, and using muscles. Cardio will not affect me much, then? I do train every hard now unlike before.

1) How do you know your exercise is performed at 70%-85% or more of your maximum intensity?

guess...figure what a 10 out of 10 is (as hard as you possibly can go before passing out and drop it down slightly

IS body combat class considered as so? You actually keep on moving, punching hard...etc.

) If I want to lose fat, shouldn't I go for the 1st option?

i knew you'd ask that...you burn a higher % of you the calories you burn during low intensity exercise then you do at high intensity exercise..so if you're doing easy jogging for 1hr you may burn 500cals (i'm just making these numbers up by the way) of which maybe 50% / 250 of those cals coming from fat reserves...in this situation you only burn cal's while your actually doing it so for 1hr that day

sounds great hey...

when you train as hard as you can you might burn the same amount of cals (500) in the same 1hr time frame but because the intensity is over 70% as described above, there's mroe a reliance on carbs to fuel the exercise so you might only burn 100 fat reserve cals

doesn't sound too good does it...

but wait there's more!!

because you've trained that hard you actually continue to burn cal's for up to 38hrs after you've trained and up to 9 x what you burned during the low intensity jogging session...so now you'ver burnt 4500 cal's in that 38hr span and even if you've continued burning the same % of fat cals as you sid when you exercises, it'a still 6 - 7 times more greater so you've used more cals' and more importantly, fat cals

to some up, train hard...as hard as you can...when you feel like you're taking it easy then you're gonna get no where

I don't think I ever really trained easy. Like I wouldn't walk on 5 km/h for 1 hour. That's boring and pointless. Really. cardio as I want it to be for now is more based on 3 times body combat classes (45 minutes each) with a 20 minutes HIIT session once or twice a week. No more than that.
Maybe do some light stuff on the side, like Yoga, Body Balance...not even "real exercises" but for body posture and flexibility

And a 3 day weights. So is that considered "too much cardio?" that may affect muscles gain?

[swanso5]

i'd say yes it is

[skully]

i'd say yes it is

I've been really active in the past 2 weeks, and I have so much energy. I don't want to just sit at home and do nothing with it..*sigh*..I know it may be a "little" too much, but not sooo much, right?

[swanso5]

we'll see, eat to fuel your exercise and you'll be fine

[skully]

we'll see, eat to fuel your exercise and you'll be fine

I believe I am eating good now. A lot LESS junk. A lot MORE healthy. But I am not sure I am eating 2,000 cals a day. Maybe a little less than that.