I'm a 18 year old , 6'1", 275 lbs (about 120kg) with body fat around 30%. I am going to play football in collegenext year and I am fairly active during the off-season...weight training 4 times a week, grappling 2 times a week, light runs twice a week.
fitness goal is to get stronger and reduce body fat near 20%. I don't want to sacrifice any muscle while doing this.
Should I bulk up and then trim down? Or the opposite? Preferrably, I would like to follow a diet plan that would allow me to do both. How many carbs should I have after an evening workout based on weight and fitness goals?
I appreciate any feedback and suggestions.
Carbs needed
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bigboy5491
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Carbs needed
Last edited by bigboy5491 on Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cassiegose
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Hi there,
If I were you I would simply lift heavy and eat a diet of lean protiens, complex carbs, fruits, veggies, and healthy fats (remember to eat protein with every meal). This will help you build muscle... and the extra muscle will speed up your metabolism and help you burn the fat. It is basically "killing two birds with one stone" so to speak. As for carbs... how many are you currently eating right now? I usually shoot for around 50 grams or so after working out (which would be around 200 calories). Those evening workouts are difficult because you need carbs after working out, but don't necessarily want to be eating a ton of carbs at night because of your body's ability to store them. If you do have carbs at night after working, i would stick to complex carbs and stay away from fruit and high sugar carbs (just opinion, some might disagree with me on that). Is it possible for you to workout in the mornings?
Hope that helps,
Cassie
If I were you I would simply lift heavy and eat a diet of lean protiens, complex carbs, fruits, veggies, and healthy fats (remember to eat protein with every meal). This will help you build muscle... and the extra muscle will speed up your metabolism and help you burn the fat. It is basically "killing two birds with one stone" so to speak. As for carbs... how many are you currently eating right now? I usually shoot for around 50 grams or so after working out (which would be around 200 calories). Those evening workouts are difficult because you need carbs after working out, but don't necessarily want to be eating a ton of carbs at night because of your body's ability to store them. If you do have carbs at night after working, i would stick to complex carbs and stay away from fruit and high sugar carbs (just opinion, some might disagree with me on that). Is it possible for you to workout in the mornings?
Hope that helps,
Cassie
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bigboy5491
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Thanks for the advice!
I workout around 4 or 5pm and have post-workout meal shortly after. I usually have a whey protein shake (45g protein, low carbs and fat) with a little honey and 2 bananas (about 65g simple carbs).
I usually try to limit complex carbs in the evening because I thought body may store them into far during the night. I will try this though because nutrition plan hasn't been going as expected.
I wish I could work out in the mornings, but I wouldn't get enough sleep. school day starts early and im usually up late doing a paper. When summer comes, I plan on doing mid-day workouts.
I workout around 4 or 5pm and have post-workout meal shortly after. I usually have a whey protein shake (45g protein, low carbs and fat) with a little honey and 2 bananas (about 65g simple carbs).
I usually try to limit complex carbs in the evening because I thought body may store them into far during the night. I will try this though because nutrition plan hasn't been going as expected.
I wish I could work out in the mornings, but I wouldn't get enough sleep. school day starts early and im usually up late doing a paper. When summer comes, I plan on doing mid-day workouts.
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cassiegose
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Hmmm... If I were you I would replace those bananas with maybe a bowl of whole grain cereal or a couple pieces of whole grain bread and see how that goes. Your body should have a more difficult time converting the complex carbs to fat than it would the bananas and honey. If you were working out in the mornings, I would say go for the simple carbs, however because you're eating them before bed you'll want to replenish your energy, while not going too overboard on the sugar/carbs that can easily be converted to fat.
Yes, I would definitely switch to mid-day workouts when you can. I think morning workouts are best as they get your metoblism revved for the day, and allow you follow the diet a little easier by doing the carbs right after working out, then tapering the carbs in the afternoon. When you workout in the evenings, its hard to find the right balance of fuel replenishment, while not eating so many that they will be stored to fat while sleeping. I teach a weightlifting class from 6-7 pm (where I lift with class) and struggle finding the right balance of nutrients to eat afterwards. Its truly a science!!
Cassie :)
Yes, I would definitely switch to mid-day workouts when you can. I think morning workouts are best as they get your metoblism revved for the day, and allow you follow the diet a little easier by doing the carbs right after working out, then tapering the carbs in the afternoon. When you workout in the evenings, its hard to find the right balance of fuel replenishment, while not eating so many that they will be stored to fat while sleeping. I teach a weightlifting class from 6-7 pm (where I lift with class) and struggle finding the right balance of nutrients to eat afterwards. Its truly a science!!
Cassie :)
as an add-on to cassie post, big-boy, I think 'a' SMALL banana (one small banana) after working out with your high protein whey is excellent, but if you want to achieve your goal from your post (20% from 30%) at your height/weight, I highly suggest eliminating sugar ALL OTHER MEALS of the day and making sure you get the rest of your daily protein intake from your complete proteins in solid form. So to recap, only sugar (in the form of your small banana) with your whey protein shake immediately after working out, and all other meals, like cassie says, PACK on the protein religiously and make sure your carbs come from complex sources, not simple ones. Stay away from white stuff (except cauliflower) generally and stay away from fruit except your post workout meal. Take it easy on the sugary carbs that dont seem sugary (like carrots and peas). Good luck.
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bigboy5491
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Thank you both for your input. I appreciate it.
I've been reading around on these forums today and have come across several topics about milk's place in a diet.
I generally drink a couple cups of skim milk or have low-fat cottage cheese before bed to get the slow releasing proteins. I think it helps with muscle growth. But, not necessarily will help with fat loss.
What do you suggest as a low-carb substitute for milk that has slow releasing proteins to last into the night?
I've been reading around on these forums today and have come across several topics about milk's place in a diet.
I generally drink a couple cups of skim milk or have low-fat cottage cheese before bed to get the slow releasing proteins. I think it helps with muscle growth. But, not necessarily will help with fat loss.
What do you suggest as a low-carb substitute for milk that has slow releasing proteins to last into the night?
Honestly, I am unsure why you are dead set on a carb which releases protein. But you have the right line of thinking for slow releasing proteins.
If I have a tough workout (high energy, intense workout) I like to eat red meat as last meal because the red meat is a protein which your body breaks down slowly. I'd say the best non-solid food/protein which is slow releasing/digesting protein is cassein (not as milk, but as cassein protein powder). I would steer clear of fruit as a carb before bedtime with your meat or cassein. Instead, try some mushrooms and spinach, both alkaline and complex carb, no more than one serving along with it. This is best way to keep your long term goals intact without loading up on carbs before bedtime.
If I have a tough workout (high energy, intense workout) I like to eat red meat as last meal because the red meat is a protein which your body breaks down slowly. I'd say the best non-solid food/protein which is slow releasing/digesting protein is cassein (not as milk, but as cassein protein powder). I would steer clear of fruit as a carb before bedtime with your meat or cassein. Instead, try some mushrooms and spinach, both alkaline and complex carb, no more than one serving along with it. This is best way to keep your long term goals intact without loading up on carbs before bedtime.
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bigboy5491
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I'm not set on carbs+slow releasing protein. I meant an alternative to sugary milk...something that has little carbs or none at all.Jumanji23 wrote:Honestly, I am unsure why you are dead set on a carb which releases protein. But you have the right line of thinking for slow releasing proteins.
If I have a tough workout (high energy, intense workout) I like to eat red meat as last meal because the red meat is a protein which your body breaks down slowly. I'd say the best non-solid food/protein which is slow releasing/digesting protein is cassein (not as milk, but as cassein protein powder). I would steer clear of fruit as a carb before bedtime with your meat or cassein. Instead, try some mushrooms and spinach, both alkaline and complex carb, no more than one serving along with it. This is best way to keep your long term goals intact without loading up on carbs before bedtime.
Your advice is helpful. I am going to stock the frezer with lean steak this weekend
.Glad to help big boy, i like your enthusiasm. I don't know if you can afford it, but at about (on average) maybe $2 extra for an 8 oz steak, you might want to look into super lean "grass-fed" beef. It has less saturated fat than store bought grain fed beef (some stores sell grass fed but they are too expensive on the whole because they are sold individually as a "specialty" item, so i say go to a grass-fed beef farm online, there are a ton of them, and shop around to compare bulk packages (usually start at 10 or 20 sirloins for smallest bulk package and they are mailed to your door in freezer package, the only downside is you have to be home within 4 hours of them dropping it off typically).
Additionally, grass fed beef has a LOT MORE omega 3's than is found in the die-colored store bought grain fed beef, one of them being CLA (Conjugated Linoleic Acid). CLA occuring naturally in grass fed meat in the long run would be WAY more cheaper than buying synthetic CLA as a supplement to your diet. And--- naturally occurring CLA is exactly what you want to reach your goals of reducing some of the stored fat in your body (this is one of the specific tasks that CLA accomplishes!). I order online and just freeze them and use them between 1-2 times per week. FYI- just make sure when you cook them watch out, because they cook really really fast compared to regular meat. It tastes really good, too. And I never have to trim fat off, i just pull from vacuum pack and put it on mini-foreman. its done in 3 minutes. mix in your greens and some mushrooms, maybe throw some sliced almonds in there---BAM, you got a great late night meal.
Additionally, grass fed beef has a LOT MORE omega 3's than is found in the die-colored store bought grain fed beef, one of them being CLA (Conjugated Linoleic Acid). CLA occuring naturally in grass fed meat in the long run would be WAY more cheaper than buying synthetic CLA as a supplement to your diet. And--- naturally occurring CLA is exactly what you want to reach your goals of reducing some of the stored fat in your body (this is one of the specific tasks that CLA accomplishes!). I order online and just freeze them and use them between 1-2 times per week. FYI- just make sure when you cook them watch out, because they cook really really fast compared to regular meat. It tastes really good, too. And I never have to trim fat off, i just pull from vacuum pack and put it on mini-foreman. its done in 3 minutes. mix in your greens and some mushrooms, maybe throw some sliced almonds in there---BAM, you got a great late night meal.
Boss Man, i am still seeing in research that sugar from fruit will still assist in the recovery phase after muscle breakdown. Katie had also posted the same thing in terms of glycogen but is it possible you could post more details of fruit sugar being an absolute "no-no" after workout? Im very intrigued and would rather be proven wrong every day than do something that isn't 100% efficient for post workout choices. I really appreciate your help here.
This explains how Complex are comparable to Simple, but the by word being here, that Complex often contain more Fibre, so that gives it a nutritional edge.
Click Here
Plus don't forget, many Fruits don't stack up for Carb levels, (unless you eat rather a lot, compared to Complex sources, which are higher. I.E. a Bowl of Cereal compared to 1.5 Large Bananas, or about 2.5 Apples.
I would say either mix Simple and Complex, I.E. Honey and Oats, or for preference go for Complex over Simple, for things like the Fibre intake.
Another theory I've had, is that if you ingest simple Carbs, after workouts, as simple enter the bloodstream at 30 calories a minute, complex 2 calories a minute, you would get a faster, more pronounced Insulin response.
However would this be beneficial for protein delivery to muscles? As that faster Insulin response, could possibly taper off, before Protein utilisation is finished.
Whareas using a high GI Carb source, that gives high Bloodsugar spike potential, and breaks down at about the same rate as Protein, as both are 4 calories per gram, might yield more longer Protein delivery, if the Insulin is produced for longer, which it is, if your Carbs are slower digesting, which neither Fruit, nor Liquid simple Sugars would be.
Click Here
Plus don't forget, many Fruits don't stack up for Carb levels, (unless you eat rather a lot, compared to Complex sources, which are higher. I.E. a Bowl of Cereal compared to 1.5 Large Bananas, or about 2.5 Apples.
I would say either mix Simple and Complex, I.E. Honey and Oats, or for preference go for Complex over Simple, for things like the Fibre intake.
Another theory I've had, is that if you ingest simple Carbs, after workouts, as simple enter the bloodstream at 30 calories a minute, complex 2 calories a minute, you would get a faster, more pronounced Insulin response.
However would this be beneficial for protein delivery to muscles? As that faster Insulin response, could possibly taper off, before Protein utilisation is finished.
Whareas using a high GI Carb source, that gives high Bloodsugar spike potential, and breaks down at about the same rate as Protein, as both are 4 calories per gram, might yield more longer Protein delivery, if the Insulin is produced for longer, which it is, if your Carbs are slower digesting, which neither Fruit, nor Liquid simple Sugars would be.
although i am completely appreciative of your attention to this matter...i am completely confused. it sounds like, from the collective verbiage of your post, that the theory of what is 100% efficient as far as replenishment and recovery to your muscular tissue breakdown, is debatable/"jury is still out". ...?
Jury still out perhaps yes.
theory in opinion, holds more weight than just a supposition, (no intentional bias meant by that), but I can't say it's a definitive thing.
Though in lieu of what cited article says, I'd still say go for High GI complex, (good), or high GI Complex + simple, (possibly better still), but not necessarily Simple alone.
The only possible argument I can see against Complex, is that Fibre has some supposed blunting effect on either Test or GH, but unless you're getting a massive amount after workouts, I don't forsee this as an issue, in terms of long-term inhibition of muscle growth, anything to be fussed over.
theory in opinion, holds more weight than just a supposition, (no intentional bias meant by that), but I can't say it's a definitive thing.
Though in lieu of what cited article says, I'd still say go for High GI complex, (good), or high GI Complex + simple, (possibly better still), but not necessarily Simple alone.
The only possible argument I can see against Complex, is that Fibre has some supposed blunting effect on either Test or GH, but unless you're getting a massive amount after workouts, I don't forsee this as an issue, in terms of long-term inhibition of muscle growth, anything to be fussed over.